Repentance

[The Mersey's Watcher]

If you did something which made you feel bad, something which went against the 9 noble virtues, how would you, as an odinist, repent ?. How would you clear your conscience and put your guilt behind you and mover on ?. Or as an odinist, would you have to live with that guilt with no chance for redemption, a second chance ?.

(btw, don't worry I haven't killed anyone ;) )

[Hengest]

Well, as Odinists we do not see right and wrong in black and white. What may be right in one situation may be wrong in another.

I would say that they first thing would be to look at what you did and the reasons for doing it. Was it done for the right reason or for selfish reasons? If the former then look at the result and learn from it, was it really the best action. If the latter, then the fact you are concerned about shows that you know that you have done wrong and can also learn from that.

Then I would look at what I might be able to do to put it right. Could you make amends to whoever you have wronged?

I would than look at how it fitted in to the overall picture of my behaviour. If I were generally a good person who made a mistake in a moment of foolishness I would learn from it and strive to ensure that it improved me.

The 9 Noble Virtues are not commandents from the High Ones. They are a guide to living life. You will not always abide by them but it is how you deal with the times you step outside them that is important.

[pinlighter]

Make good any harms you have done to other people.


Then, understand that essentially, you "sinned" against yourself.

You were the one wounded, damaged, by your action. Heal that wound.

[The Mersey's Watcher]

Cheers, that's actually a load of my mind :D .

(PS: Again don't worry, everyone is fine, no-one his harmed and there are no dead bodies lying around :p )

[Katia]

This is an important question. I think foremost you need to make amends as much as you can. Action(s) that would balance the scales of energy for you. This may be an apology, or financial restitution, prison time, etc etc. Like Hengest said, every situation is different. What it comes down to is that you're the one that has to get up in the morning and look at yourself in the mirror every day and be proud of the person looking back at you. Until you can honestly do that, your amends haven't been made, I believe.

This is so much more beneficial than the "dunking into a pool of water" and "confessional" the desert god obliges. I think, anyways!

Good topic!

[mrsdragon]

The 9 Noble Virtues are not commandents from the High Ones. They are a guide to living life. You will not always abide by them but it is how you deal with the times you step outside them that is important.

;) It took me a while to realize this! But now that I've "gotten it" I've been able to deal with the wrong things I do, understand why I did it and stop the behavior. I had to also realize that I can't undo 50 years of living wrong in just a day or two! ;) :)

mrsd

[Teufelhunden]

I think White horse and Katia hit it ont he head.
What you have to take into consideration is that "repentance" is a very Christian thing, where you are asking God to be forgiven, ie repent for some sort of absolution to what you have done. As an Odinist you will find that with the God's you are not on a bent knee in blind worship striving for some parental type approval, like a child that has done wrong. You are independant of mind and action. Do not get me wrong there can be a time where you WILL answer to them, but small things that bring on guilt is like White horse said, you will have to look at the why's and justification of each situation as it arises, and if you feel you need to rectify this with the person or fix the situation then that would be Courrage to face the situation and overcome it, a noble virtue! Take into account the reasons for the situation and act accordingly, and try not to read too much into the virtues, as our faith is not so strict as to almost be Catholic.
Teufelhunden

[solar_nexus]

Well, for starters there is absolutely no evidence for the "Nine Noble Virtues". If you want a good synopsis of Heathen Ethics, I would read the book We are our Deeds by Eric Wodening. The word sin is actually a germanic word and originally it meant to "stray from the road". The anceint Germanics beleived that one should atone for their misdeeds by performing positive actions, which will hopefully over-ride your negative ones. The Germanics also had something called "weregild", which is basically compensation. So its like, if I were to get drunk and then **** all over your lawn or something, then the wise thing to do is to send you a gift of some kind, cut your grass, or whatever will cause us to be "even" with each other. Also, the mysteries of "knowing right from wrong" can be found in the Runes Tiwaz (Justice, Logic), Raidho (Right Action, Reason), and Sowilo (staying true to ones goals, Honor). Other values are also found in the Rune Row, for an example, "espirite de core" is found in Wunjo, trust and teamwork is found in Ehwaz, couragousness and overcoming obstacles are found in the uruz and thurisaz runes, generosity is found in the Gebo rune, the importants of saving and converving is found in Ingwaz, the laws of "cause and effect" or wyrd is found in the Perdhro rune, and so forth.
Furthermore, there is no such thing as "guilt" or "remorse" in Heathenry....why would you do something stupid, and then feel guilt over it? Wouldn't that simply be following one stupidity with another one? In reality, its simply a matter of cause and effect....if you do things that are unvirtuous and stupid you will eventually be lead to ruin. This is not a "moral decree" , its just how things happen.


If you did something which made you feel bad, something which went against the 9 noble virtues, how would you, as an odinist, repent ?. How would you clear your conscience and put your guilt behind you and mover on ?. Or as an odinist, would you have to live with that guilt with no chance for redemption, a second chance ?.

(btw, don't worry I haven't killed anyone ;) )

[solar_nexus]

As an Odinist you will find that with the God's you are not on a bent knee in blind worship striving for some parental type approval, like a child that has done wrong
Teufelhunden

Well, actually, this isn't entirely true. In one of the Saga's (I forgot which one), the hero of the story does get on his knees when he is praying to his patron goddess, and in Hinduism it is custumary to kneel before a deity of the opposite sex. Its actually okay to kneel before and worship a deity of the opposite sex. In my opinion, for a man to kneel before a god of the same sex is tatamount to spiritual faggery. In my practices, I veiw Woden as someone to be emulated but not worshipped or approached to in the manner of a starry eyed fan, or suck up to him like some kind of sycophant. Now, I absolutely do worship Freya and the Valkeries, and I'll get on my knees for them any day of the week. I constantly look at the mountains, the trees, the sea, and the forests and I am in awe of how beautiful nature is, and I see all things beautiful as expressions of Freya. I love to look at beautiful women, I like touching them, kissing them, and making love to them, and I see all of these acts of admirations and indulgences as prayers to Freya. And when I take the time to write poetry for them, or to be sure that I please them sexually (instead of just thinking of myself), and just be a gentleman, then I see that as doing honor to Freya as well. I also think that learning the "art of love" and going through the trouble of making yourself desirable to women (like working out, having some manners, having "game", ect.) is also a worshipful act. Sorry for going on a tangent, but I can go on for hours when Freya comes into my mind :D

[Hengest]

[QUOTE=solar_nexus]Well, for starters there is absolutely no evidence for the "Nine Noble Virtues". /QUOTE]

Neither does there need to be. It is widely known that they came into being in the early 1970's, so what? Some people do not try to live in some idealized version of the past and like to see their faith evolve with new and vibrant activities and lore.

[Teufelhunden]

SN,
well you bend and grovel if you wish, i will never, not to anyone or God.

[solar_nexus]

Well, its not really bending and groveling. It more or less about being in Her service. I don't really ask her for anything, I am simply in awe of Freya's beauty and power. Beleive me, if Freya came down and wanted you to get on your knees and pleasure her, your knees would be very dirty from lapping from her loins.


SN,
well you bend and grovel if you wish, i will never, not to anyone or God.

[Loki's Advocate]

Back to the question...

Basically, I think the only form of repentance worth a damn is making good whatever it is you've done wrong.

If that's a 'sorry', then fine, but often-times to say 'sorry' is to admit that you've done wrong, but don't intend to do anything about it (or don't think anything can be done, and don't intend to try anyhow).

[Teufelhunden]

LOL SN!!!!

Hey it just so happens that Freya is my other patron along with Odin :)

hmmmm got me on that one..... I would be a diry boy lol

[Teufelhunden]

LA
I think that it would be a matter of actions are greater than the words of sorry. To do is a greter action than to say.
I get your point though..
Teufelhunden

[Loki's Advocate]

Yes, actions are greater than words.

If you've made a mess, clean it up! Don't go on about how bad you feel that there's this mess...

[God's Helm]

I'll chime in with this statement.

Everything I do I try to do what I feel is the best choice at the time. Now it may be a crumby choice, but it is the one I feel/think is the right one. Maybe things go wrong afterwards, maybe there was a better choice, but I tried and that's all you can do. Now if/when you do something stupid. Best to owe up to it right away and or make good on it. The faster you tend to a wound the better it heals.

As far as the Gods: They know you're not perfect. Just do you best. If you do that, none can ask for more.

[Hengest]

I quite agree GH. Well said.

[Lonnie]

SN,
well you bend and grovel if you wish, i will never, not to anyone or God.


I will have to go with SN on this... It is not "groveling" to kneel before the Gods... It is respect... Where do you think kneeling in christianity comes from? Or putting your hands together when praying?? These are not things you see in Judaism, they came from the chrisitian church when it expanded into europe... The priest would not put themselves at eye level with the Gods. The clasped hands come from clasping ones hands around a sword while in ritual... I always get tickled when I see people make comments like "I kneel to no man or God"... While you may not, I sure as Hel do... :cool:

[Hengest]

I see no problem in kneeling as a sign of respect, but I don't see much respect in the post about lapping Freya's loins.

[Teufelhunden]

I always get tickled when I see people make comments like "I kneel to no man or God
Well Lonnie it is a matter of perspective, When I use what I said it is meant ina form that I will never "kneel or grovel" to any man the way Christians do so before the pope, a priest etc. I "bow or kneel before no God" In a sence that I will never be on a bent knee as if to petition or beg redemption, forgiveness or even for a love of a God, I should have been specific as I read it all back now. I believe that the God's know your heart and intentions and that as I said before that your actions you take will speak volumes in your life rather than token words that would stand without meaning sans the corresponding actions to back it.
Also To white horse, you are quite correct about the Freya comment in retrospect, it was not appropriate, but I also believe that in a round about way it is a compliment to her, and her beauty, I know that if she showed up on my door I would have trouble refusing her if she looks anyhting like what I see in my dreams lol. I also think that they have a bit of irreverance and can see the humor intended. But point well taken brother..
Teufelhunden

[solar_nexus]

I'll admit that it was a little crass for me to say that, but you know what...women are far less offended by comments of that nature than guys think. Usually they will usually fain annoyance at it (so that they won't appear too eager), but what you don't see is there ego's swelling...especially if the guy that made that comment did it with a little bit of flaire and style and is at least somewhat attractive (actually, I am a hot guy :D ), and I've also noticed that guys that try to be *too nice* and never say anything bawdy and they end up looking like overly shy wimps, and in reality the women that I have been the most lucky with are the ones that I have made the most bawdy passes at (and I have this way of getting away with it). Women love playing coy and the problem with the "nice guys" is that they take what they say at face value.


I see no problem in kneeling as a sign of respect, but I don't see much respect in the post about lapping Freya's loins.

[Lonnie]

I believe that the God's know your heart and intentions and that as I said before that your actions you take will speak volumes in your life rather than token words that would stand without meaning sans the corresponding actions to back it.

I don't think the Gods are "mind readers", thats why the choices we make are so important... Why the words we speak and then back them up with action is so important... If "Intentions" were good enough then little would probably get done... To borrow a saying "the road to hel is paved with good intentions"... If speaking words of worth were not important, we would not have or need Sumbel... While yes we are a people of deeds, words have a very important place as well... Check out the piece The Myth of the Silent Oath (http://gamall-steinn.org/mv-oaths.htm)...
Words and Deeds are 2 parts of the puzzle, and are not whole without each other...

[aud_friggsdottir]

I'll admit that it was a little crass for me to say that, but you know what...women are far less offended by comments of that nature than guys think. Usually they will usually fain annoyance at it (so that they won't appear too eager), but what you don't see is there ego's swelling...especially if the guy that made that comment did it with a little bit of flaire and style and is at least somewhat attractive (actually, I am a hot guy :D ), and I've also noticed that guys that try to be *too nice* and never say anything bawdy and they end up looking like overly shy wimps, and in reality the women that I have been the most lucky with are the ones that I have made the most bawdy passes at (and I have this way of getting away with it). Women love playing coy and the problem with the "nice guys" is that they take what they say at face value.

You obviously have an exagerated idea of your self and others....I find that comment a bit over the top as well. I think it is an age thing to....I find such comments immature, but then I am not a 20 year old. Also, setting has much to do with it. We aren't in a bar here looking for "relationships".

I am sure you meant most of this tongue in cheek, but just so you know not everyone finds crudeness "at least somewhat attractive". Also, think about it...how do you show flaire on a web board where all you have is "happy faces" and typed letters?

Trust me, I don't mind dirty jokes and crudeness in certain settings....I am married to a driller...and well I have hung out in some interesting circles...but nonetheless...I don't think you will find the ladies here acting 'coy' to somehow attract you.

[aud_friggsdottir]

Well Lonnie it is a matter of perspective, When I use what I said it is meant ina form that I will never "kneel or grovel" to any man the way Christians do so before the pope, a priest etc. I "bow or kneel before no God" In a sence that I will never be on a bent knee as if to petition or beg redemption, forgiveness or even for a love of a God, I should have been specific as I read it all back now.

This is sorta how I look at it. Being brought up christian, I view kneeling as groveling and begging for "forgiveness". As long as it is in my mind like this, I will continue to feel this way.

I do see Lonnie's point though, and can see it from a different view. Also, I of course agree with the "Word and Deed" thought pattern. Talk the talk AND walk the walk :)

FFF