Sauna / sweatlodge

[heilwotan]

The Sauna or Sweatlogde in our faith is new to me, does anyone have any experience with this, or opinions?

I found the following link interesting:

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:ud7CaM42sOIJ:haligwaerstow.ealdriht .org/sauna.html+sauna+/+asatru&hl=en

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

That's a new one on me, the only people ive ever heard to use sweat lodges were native american peoples. Maybe it true, maybe it isnt i'm not sure.

[heilwotan]

I know the word "sauna" has its roots in the Scadinavian countries.

[The Mersey's Watcher]

I've used a sauna once and hated it. Sitting in a hot steamy chamber sweating and usualy in the company of other half naked men is not my idea of a good time :) . This is the first time i've heard of saunas being used in Odinic rituals.

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

I know the word "sauna" has its roots in the Scadinavian countries.
Yes but you are talking about a Sauna/Sweatlodge having been incorporated into Religion. The point I was making was the only group of people who use sauna's/sweat lodges as far as their Religion goes are the native american peoples, but as ive said I could be wrong so I wont say its true or false.

[heilwotan]

My Internet time is limited since I only use it at cafes, that means for my study time is limited too.

But I recently found this about Saunas:

http://www.springssauna.com/history.html

It looks like this was for sure a scandinavian thing.

[Sigurd]

well, I find that Saunas are good for welfare, but why should it be relevant to one's belief?! I don't get that point, and if somebody else does, please explain the religious value and symbolism of a Sauna...

[Outdoorsman]

The only thing I can think of is possibly its use as a tool for some sort of practice, perhaps meditation or trance. Perhaps it can facilitate the practice of such.

I have not heard before now an actual Odinic tradition for the spiritual use of a Sauna. Doesn't mean it can't be used that way or that there never was such a use in our people's history. I'm just as curious for more information as anyone else here.

[Sigurd]

That is an idea. But meditation ? Hmmm... Don't know. I don't see a lot of point in the meditation that our society knows. And I don't think that meditating in a Sauna would get anyone closer to the gods. Well, certainly wouldn't work with me.

This gets odd. I would still not see a point of professing my belief in a bl**dy Sauna! Of course it can be used for that sort of purpose, but I simply can't get down to the idea. Probably connected to the fact that I feel more comfortable in the cold, but I certainly still don't see the religious value of a Sauna...

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

That is an idea. But meditation ? Hmmm... Don't know. I don't see a lot of point in the meditation that our society knows. And I don't think that meditating in a Sauna would get anyone closer to the gods. Well, certainly wouldn't work with me.

You do not think meditation is part of our folkway? Or that it cannot help and guide us through certian troubles, problems or other negative times in our life? What do you think the runes are used for? Just writing? You use the runes for meditation. Meditation is a big part of our folkway, the clearing and relaxing of the mind to open yourself up to exceptional thought and understanding of things you would not normaly understand or try to comprehend. When I want to relax becasue I am stressed out or I am having a hard time solving a problem I choose a rune or symbol and I lay in my bed with my eyes closed and clear my mind, just invisioning that symbol or rune in my head for a good 20 minutes. When I finish I feel my mind is so much more clear, I can think better and usually come up with a good solution to whatever problem I had or feel a LOT more relaxed and at peace than before.

And please tell me how would you know it would not work for you, if you have not tried it first?



This gets odd. I would still not see a point of professing my belief in a bl**dy Sauna! Of course it can be used for that sort of purpose, but I simply can't get down to the idea. Probably connected to the fact that I feel more comfortable in the cold, but I certainly still don't see the religious value of a Sauna...

I dont think you totally grasp the whole concept of our folkway if you dont see how a sauna could be usefull. I am not saying our ancestors DID use them but I am not saying they didn't either. Have you ever spent time in a sauna while at a health club, hotel or resort? Have you never been in a sauna and just let your mind wander and thought about things? It can be an extremely relaxing and mind opening experience. I think things of that nature could help us just to expand our minds and ways of thinking, to discover things relating to our lore and modern life that wern't clear to us before.

I meditate and it helps me a great deal.

"Dont knock it till you've tried it."

[Sigurd]

OK, to reply to Hveds point I should maybe emphasize beforehand that arguments are not my greatest strength, but that I am on my way to learning this.


You do not think meditation is part of our folkway? Or that it cannot help and guide us through certian troubles, problems or other negative times in our life? What do you think the runes are used for? Just writing? You use the runes for meditation. Meditation is a big part of our folkway, the clearing and relaxing of the mind to open yourself up to exceptional thought and understanding of things you would not normaly understand or try to comprehend. When I want to relax becasue I am stressed out or I am having a hard time solving a problem I choose a rune or symbol and I lay in my bed with my eyes closed and clear my mind, just invisioning that symbol or rune in my head for a good 20 minutes. When I finish I feel my mind is so much more clear, I can think better and usually come up with a good solution to whatever problem I had or feel a LOT more relaxed and at peace than before.

And please tell me how would you know it would not work for you, if you have not tried it first?

Yes I very much understand your point there. But I think you misunderstood me slightly, after my misunderstanding. See, when I said "our society" then I meant the general society of the time we live in, not the Odinic society. Because if "meditation" would be "meditation" then a Buddhist should get access to our beliefs, but this cannot be. But as society dictates "meditation" to be this kind of Far East thingymy, I misunderstood the point there and had a less universal meaning of the word in my head.. The example you gave, I would not class strictly as "meditation" and therefore I don't class it as meditation, as it conveys something natural and you actually get to a result, while with this Far East meditation thing it seldomly works (I tried it out for a day or two and it did never worked out for me, I was upset thereafter). But if that procedure with the runes you can also refer to as meditation, then I shall apologize, because it actually has a point. I never knew one called that "meditation", too. This may sound stupid but that is the way it is. I am a native speaker of German, and I think German would have more words to describe this procedure (which I would rather class as "devotion" rather than "meditation") than English.




I dont think you totally grasp the whole concept of our folkway if you dont see how a sauna could be usefull. I am not saying our ancestors DID use them but I am not saying they didn't either. Have you ever spent time in a sauna while at a health club, hotel or resort? Have you never been in a sauna and just let your mind wander and thought about things? It can be an extremely relaxing and mind opening experience. I think things of that nature could help us just to expand our minds and ways of thinking, to discover things relating to our lore and modern life that wern't clear to us before.

I meditate and it helps me a great deal.

"Dont knock it till you've tried it."

Again, I understand your reasoning, but you have to understand mine.
Well, let's put it that way. I cannot grasp the concept of the Sauna. I understand that you can relax and everything but there are ways where I can relax much more. When I lie outside in the sun, maybe with a pipe, and alone, I can much more experience a calm feeling than in a Sauna. And the general way a Sauna is operated nowadays, you can never get peace and you always feel (physically and metaphorically) watched by other people in it, for which reason I cannot let myself drift away. I have actually never been in a Sauna on my own; so I can not really tell of that factor. However I can tell to a certain extent: it is usually a locked, confined room, and I cannot see beyond a locked room. When my family forced me into church i told them that if you were in nature you could much better feel the presence of one's god(s) than in a confined room. The same way I can only find a certain connection to the gods when I am outside, in the world that "they gave us" rather than the world "we gave ourselves". So seeing that fact and that I personally feel more relaxation just when I am outside in nature, either alone or with my friends, no matter which weather - I think I have a good enough reason not to need to understand why the Sauna needed to be overly valuable. I also think that probably our ancestors would not have had much use of it.

I hope, now being less tired and understanding that "meditation" is a more universal word than I had perceived. that I could explain the point to a better extent and that our disagreement is cleared. Can we leave it at that?

[heilwotan]

I am not a history expert in Scandinavian history, but I have read that the Swedes and Finns interacted very closely, even speak each other's language.
It is also said by some that the ancient Finns worshipped basically the same Gods, but in a different tongue. If the ancient Finns have any validity in our culture then we might want to consider their Sagas also, like: - Kalevala

In the Kalevala it mentions the use of a sauna: Kalevala 7, 289-94

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/

So, does this hold any water? More opinions please!

[schneewittchen]

I've used a sauna once and hated it. Sitting in a hot steamy chamber sweating and usualy in the company of other half naked men is not my idea of a good time :) . This is the first time i've heard of saunas being used in Odinic rituals.

thats exactly what I would have thought!

[Sigurd]

I am not a history expert in Scandinavian history, but I have read that the Swedes and Finns interacted very closely, even speak each other's language.
It is also said by some that the ancient Finns worshipped basically the same Gods, but in a different tongue. If the ancient Finns have any validity in our culture then we might want to consider their Sagas also, like: - Kalevala

In the Kalevala it mentions the use of a sauna: Kalevala 7, 289-94

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/kveng/

So, does this hold any water? More opinions please!

Hmmm you have a point there. So, you say it had a relevance. But I say that while there may be links that of course not everything has to be coincident, so maybe only the Finns used the sauna in their beliefs...

[heilwotan]

Hmmm you have a point there. So, you say it had a relevance. But I say that while there may be links that of course not everything has to be coincident, so maybe only the Finns used the sauna in their beliefs...

Good point also, it just might be just a Finnish thing.

Right now I am trying to recall an old movie (in the '60s?), I think it was called "Viking", where they show a scene where the main character used a sweatlodge/sauna tent to heal / cleanse himself, then afterwards, exited to jump in a river? Interesting huh?

[Sigurd]

Good point also, it just might be just a Finnish thing.

Right now I am trying to recall an old movie (in the '60s?), I think it was called "Viking", where they show a scene where the main character used a sweatlodge/sauna tent to heal / cleanse himself, then afterwards, exited to jump in a river? Interesting huh?

Yes, it got something to it. It actually makes sense. It takes all the sweat from your pores and you sweat your "smell" out. (OK odd wording there but i cant put it into better vocabulary...) then to wash of the new sweat... maybe something along those lines...

[heilwotan]

Here is something I found that supports that the Northman used a Sauna like bath house:

Other buildings included a rectangular barn or byre, and two smaller buildings interpreted as a smithy and a bath-house. The hearth in the smithy contained fragments of iron clinker, while the 'bath-house' had a large hearth suggesting that water may have been thrown on hot stones to create a sauna. Alternatively this heated building may have been used for drying grain.

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba69/feat3.shtml

[Sigurd]

Here is something I found that supports that the Northman used a Sauna like bath house:

Other buildings included a rectangular barn or byre, and two smaller buildings interpreted as a smithy and a bath-house. The hearth in the smithy contained fragments of iron clinker, while the 'bath-house' had a large hearth suggesting that water may have been thrown on hot stones to create a sauna. Alternatively this heated building may have been used for drying grain.

http://www.britarch.ac.uk/ba/ba69/feat3.shtml

Hmmm...interesting... I don't think I have heard that one yet...

[hemrud]

Its possible that gothi would use it as part of a purification process before any major religous event, of course its also a good way to cleanse the body during winter when you arent sweating out the impurities naturally. Its an interesting subject.

[Hengest]

Good pint Hemrud and one that I was considering. I can see how a sauna before carrying out an important ceremony could be valid. Clearing of the mind, cleansing of the body etc. It has certainly encouraged me to do a bit of digging.

Sigurd, I think after the initial misunderstaning over the word "Meditation" you explained yourself very well. This will never be the best format for trying to get your point across but I get waht you mean.

Hevdrungr is totally right, meditation certainly has a part to play in our faith and it is certainly something that the OR is expanding on. Eowyn OR recently conducted a blot which included a guided meditaiton and it was as vivid as if my eyes were open. The energies raised at that blot were immense.

[heilwotan]

Here is more I have found out about this subject! This topic is great because I have learned allot and glad to share it with Folk.

It is very much in our ancient and present culture the use of a Bathhouse / Suana (I will use the term "Bathhouse" or "Sauna" because "sweatlodge" is too AmerIndian sounding, even though sweatlodge is pure English).

Here is a couple of links, hurstwic has allot of references:

http://www.northvegr.org/lore/eyrbyggja/013.php

http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/daily_living/text/health_and_medicine.htm

[Sigurd]

Hmmm.... Apparently it might have played more of a role than I had ever thought... :rolleyes:

[Schwarzesonne]

I’ve long argued that there are 3 basic Odinist rituals:

Blót= through which Man connects to the Divine via the exchange of gifts.
Samal/Sumble= through which individual connect to one another by mixing oaths, toasts, and boasts into Urdabrunno
Sauna= through which individuals my search deeper into themselves.

Our backyard supports a small sauna in which I’ve led rituals for this purpose. Different people handle the ritual aspects of this in diverse ways (mine is basically run like a glorified 12-step meeting), but no matter how it’s done the goal is the same. If the participants do not leave feeling physically and emotionally drained, in my opinion, the ritual was a poor one. This is not something that we do all the time- maybe 3 or 4 times a year. But the infrequency adds to its depth as well.

[Canuck]

Sauna= through which individuals my search deeper into themselves.


This makes sense, like other rituals with this goal, because the sauna(in my mind at least) could be representitive of a womb. Much like a sensory deprivation chamber. I hope that made sense.

[heilwotan]

I’ve long argued that there are 3 basic Odinist rituals:

Blót= through which Man connects to the Divine via the exchange of gifts.
Samal/Sumble= through which individual connect to one another by mixing oaths, toasts, and boasts into Urdabrunno
Sauna= through which individuals my search deeper into themselves.

Our backyard supports a small sauna in which I’ve led rituals for this purpose. Different people handle the ritual aspects of this in diverse ways (mine is basically run like a glorified 12-step meeting), but no matter how it’s done the goal is the same. If the participants do not leave feeling physically and emotionally drained, in my opinion, the ritual was a poor one. This is not something that we do all the time- maybe 3 or 4 times a year. But the infrequency adds to its depth as well.

Did you have a picture of your Sauna. if so, put it here so we may all see. Thanks.

[Booga]

I just had to write something here...
For a starters. Saunas are pretty common in sweden and has been for ages. And yes they were used in "the old days". In swedish the word is "bastu" wich is short for "badstuga" wich means "small house were you take a bath".
The best way to experience a bastu is with a few friends and a beer or two. It is a way to bond. And of course a way to clean up.
As a kid at my grandfathers place we always went to the bastu before all big occations.
And I would guess it worked the same way earlier on. Before the blot in your household you probably would have taken a bastu and cleaned yourself up while relaxing with your closest friends and taking the first mug of mead or beer. And then, after the bastu, you were fit for the rest of the festivities.

[pinlighter]

Welcome Booga!!! :cool:

(But what does the name mean???)

[Booga]

(totally off topic) It is the webnick I started to use when I first started out with this internet thing around -95. I was a huge Tank Girl-fan so I nicked a name from there :)

[enslaved1896]

Good pint Hemrud and one that I was considering. I can see how a sauna before carrying out an important ceremony could be valid. Clearing of the mind, cleansing of the body etc. It has certainly encouraged me to do a bit of digging.

Sigurd, I think after the initial misunderstaning over the word "Meditation" you explained yourself very well. This will never be the best format for trying to get your point across but I get waht you mean.

Hevdrungr is totally right, meditation certainly has a part to play in our faith and it is certainly something that the OR is expanding on. Eowyn OR recently conducted a blot which included a guided meditaiton and it was as vivid as if my eyes were open. The energies raised at that blot were immense.

Is Eowyn OR writing a book\articles about the subject of meditation and Odinism, perhaps?

Is it possible to elaborate more on this blot you attended? The concept intrests me a great deal.

[Scramaseax]

http://www.ealdriht.org/sauna.html

[pinlighter]

(totally off topic) It is the webnick I started to use when I first started out with this internet thing around -95. I was a huge Tank Girl-fan so I nicked a name from there :)


Oh, the kangaroo!!!! :lol:

[Sigurd]

Sorry, Booga, (and perhaps pinlighter as well) can we all remind you to please take overly discussion of such issues like nicknames into an introduction or general discussion forum in future? This thread is about saunas/sweatlodges, really.