Odinism / Asatru

[Brian]

As a newbie and an enquirer at present I have noticed that there are many groups out there claiming to be Odinist and some Asatru. I get confused at times. What are the differences between the two?

For me it woould be vital for my study, growth and development that I have contact with a local kindred.

Thanks.

Brian

[pinlighter]

There is no real difference. Asatru is an Icelandic word for some thing like "old religion", that is all.

As a comparative newby myself I have noted that the wishy-washy Universalist groups tend to call themselves "Asatru" more often than "Odinist". However I would not consider these true followers of our way whatever they call them selves.



If you are looking for a group to join I will recommend The Odinic Rite, which I belong to: but perhaps other people will also have ideas for you :)

http://www.********rite.org/

[Liffrea]

I always considered Asatru to be the Scandinavian name/identity for Odinism, with Irminism as the German and Dutch version and Anglo-Saxon representing the English version. There are no real differences between the three.

As Pinlighter said Asatru does tend to be the name used by new-ager's.

[pinlighter]

Tell us where you live, Brian, and maybe we'll have some suggestons. :)

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Asatru does tend to be the name used by new-ager's.

I disagree with that comment. I use either term Odinism (Odinist) or Asatru (Asatruari) and I am no "new ager" or universalist.

Asatru IMO is no different than Odinism if you are looking for a "label", while there are many fluffy/uni types who like to call all Odinists more political or somehow have the belief Odin is the only God from the Norse Pantheon we honour which is something I disagree with. The Odinic Rite use the term Odinism and Odinist while they strongly urge their members to keep politics of any sort out of our folkway, which is something I agree with. We follow and honour all of the Gods, Aesir & Vanir.

Asatruari, Odinist, Heathen are all labels people can use but I dont really care about labels, I am who I am and I believe what I believe. Some day I will use the term Odinism or Odinist, one day I will use Asatru or Asatruari/Asatruar. It's the same thing to me.

[Teufelhunden]

You also have to take into consideration that ther are MANY groups out there that follow a re-invented make it up as you go variety. The best way to tell is what their beliefs are. Do they accept anyone and their dog.. Do they seem to mish mash wicca and other beliefs into thier "beliefs". I would look to the Odinic rite for questions, and possible membership. There is also the Asatru Folk Assembly, although I would try the OR first, the AFA seems to have trouble awnsering any emails.
White horse , and Hved are great sources, as are other members of the OR here. You want to learn right, take your time and do your homework. It is much easier to study right the first time and not have to re evaluate everything years later as I had to. Above all follow your heart it will tell you, and you will feel the right and wrongs.
best of luck, and never feel that any question is a dumb one that is the way you learn.. The only stupid question is the one that is not asked.
Teufelhunden

[Lonnie]

You have to be realllll carefull when painting with such a large brush...
There are "LOTS" of folk who use the term Asatru to describe themselves and the religion they practice. "LOTS" of them are far from being the "Uni" "Wiccatru" variety... There are groups such as Asatru Assembly and the AFA, not to mention many a kindreds and individuals who are not members of such national groups, that are GOOD Heathen Folk... You really have to look further than the title to find out what type of people you are dealing with, and have to do it on an individual basis... There are even folk who describe themselves as "Odinist" who would fall into that "Uni" "Wiccatru" variety, found such a group locally not long ago... So don't go judging people by the title they use, it isn't always a good way to tell where they are on the map...

[Scramaseax]

Asatru is an Icelandic word for some thing like "old religion", that is all.

Asatru means "faith in the Aesir" or "true to the Aesir" "loyal to the Aesir". It's made up of Asa(of the Aesir) + tru(troth). You're probably thinking of Forn Sed, which means "Old Ways", or Geleafawaer Fyrnsida "Old Ways of Believing"

[Hrafnas]

I would like to add my experience here: If I say that I am Asatru to someone, they generally ask what it is and I get that benefit of explaining. If I say Odinist (which I prefer along with plain heathen) I am usually met with "Oh the viking religion....." and the door closes upon futher discussion. Not that I really care, its just more preferential to be heard out when asked.

[aud_friggsdottir]

I get the "Whats that?" with both labels...but if I say Heathen...it really ends a conversation...LOL...like you, I could care less :). !Godless Heathen! I am sure flashes in folks' minds...lol.

[Brian]

Hailsa Kinsmen,

Thanks for the replies and the offers of help. I appreciate that. Just for the record and as some of you asked I live in Ocean County, New Jersey.

Wassail,

Brian.

[pinlighter]

Well, Brian, you want to find a nearby kindred.

I suggest you have a look at the OR site and check out the Vinland chapters.


Also you might check the Asatru Alliance

http://asatru.org/


I don't know a vast amount about the AA but they do a great mag called Vor Tru which seems very sound.



Can any one else recommend places??

.

[Brian]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Asatru Folk Alliance(AFA) and the Asatru Alliance (AA)? There must be something that keeps them apart as seperate groups or associations. Knowing this will help me make an informed choice.

Wassail,

Brian

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the Asatru Folk Alliance(AFA) and the Asatru Alliance (AA)? There must be something that keeps them apart as seperate groups or associations. Knowing this will help me make an informed choice.

Wassail,

Brian

The Asatru Folk Assembly is more of a Member based orginization while the Asatru Alliance is more geared towards Kindred (group) memberships. For example, If I wanted to I could join the AFA myself I could while I couldnt join the Asatru Alliance unless I was part of a Kindred.

You should allso look into the Odinic Rite www.********rite.org One of the longest running Heathen orginizations out there today. I am a member, so is most of the Odinist.com staff and many other members.

[Brian]

Yes, I am looking into the OR. I have sent an email asking if there are any local hearths near me. For me that local, kindred community contact is vital.

Wassail,

Brian.

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

You dont have to be a member of an orginization to be a member of a kindred, you know that right?

[Brian]

As a newbie I was sort of aware of that and that some groups are membership based and some are associations of kindreds....but perhaps you may want to elaborate on it for me.

What I would want to avoid is the "new agers". I would want the real thing. As part of that I think a true sense of folk that forms true kindred is a must. Therefore, I see the logic that ours is a folkish faith and for a particular folk. To acknowledge this is not being exclusionary, but realistic. In some of the research I have done I have noted that some are open to "whoever the Gods call."

Hope this clarifies my mindset.

Wassail,

Brian.

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

As a newbie I was sort of aware of that and that some groups are membership based and some are associations of kindreds....but perhaps you may want to elaborate on it for me.

What I would want to avoid is the "new agers". I would want the real thing. As part of that I think a true sense of folk that forms true kindred is a must. Therefore, I see the logic that ours is a folkish faith and for a particular folk. To acknowledge this is not being exclusionary, but realistic. In some of the research I have done I have noted that some are open to "whoever the Gods call."

Hope this clarifies my mindset.

Wassail,

Brian.

You can be a member of a kindred or hearth without being a member of any particular orginization. Some kindreds require you be a member of such and such to join, but that is usually because said kindred is a member of a certain org as a whole but that is not always the case.

For example, Lonnie is a member of a kindred and the Irminen-Gesellschaft, but I dont think with his kindred (I could be wrong so if I am lonnie, I appologize) you have to automatically be a member of the Irminen-Gesellschaft.

You could be a member of The Irminen-Gesellschaft, Asatru Folk Assembly or The Odinic Rite and not be a member of any kindred, and vice versa, you could be a member of a kindred and not be a part of any particular Heathen org.

I agree with wanting to keep away from the Universalists/Non folkish types, seeing our folkway as something that is ours and ours alone being based on ones ancestry and culture. If that is the path you lean towards I would strongly suggest the Odinic Rite or AFA since they are both Folk based, of course I would lean more towards the Odinic Rite since I am a member and have known it to be very professional, not to say that the AFA is not. I just know the OR, many OR members and everyone ive talked to and become friends with are good, well educated, honourable folkish men and women. White Horse, IrishJay, Hrothgar, Me, aud_friggsdottir, Katia and many others on Odinist.com are Odinic Rite members. Maybe sending a PM to Kathy (aud_friggsdottir) and asking her to mail you an Odinic Rite info package would be a good start.

As for people being "called by the gods" I find that true in some cases and false in others. I feel I was called upon by the gods (See my thread in the "Daily Living" section of Odinist.com) but I see that as being because I had the connection to them, I had the ancestry, I cannot see how the gods would call on someone who is not folk. Most view the Gods and Goddesses as archetypes for the european and more specific Germanic/Northern European peoples. Anyone who believes Thor or Odin are true physical beings in the sky is a little on the crazy side because if our gods are physically real then so is the Christian god, the Slavic gods, Greek, Roman ect ect ect. The gods are real to US, in the sense that they make up who we are just as the Greek or Slavic gods are real to the Greek and Slavic people because that is how those peoples' ancestors related to nature and the creating forces within.They (Our gods and any other groups Dietys) are not real in the physical sense (at least as far as man knows).

[hrolf]

Hey, Hved. I don't mean to be contrary, but I believe that the gods are more than just mere archetypes. I think they they are beings of a sort, but that our image of them is how we percieve them, not what they actually look like. I don't think that they are figments of our collective imagination. Your explanation sounds almost atheistic. No offense, my friend, it's just that it seems a little simplified. I think that they are part of the Divine source, and linked to this Earth.

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Hey, Hved. I don't mean to be contrary, but I believe that the gods are more than just mere archetypes. I think they they are beings of a sort, but that our image of them is how we percieve them, not what they actually look like. I don't think that they are figments of our collective imagination. Your explanation sounds almost atheistic. No offense, my friend, it's just that it seems a little simplified. I think that they are part of the Divine source, and linked to this Earth.

Well I and many others see the Gods and Goddesses as archetypes that manifest themselfs in us as northern european peoples and nature, they are how our ancestors related to the creating forces in nature. I just forgot to add the nature part in my post, I dont see them as actual physical beings in any other "realm" so we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

And dont refer to any of my beliefs as atheistic again, thanks :)

[Brian]

I strongly agree with your comments on the importance of an awareness of volk identity. To me it is a necessary foundational element and without it I can not see how any true sense of kinship could be accomplished or attained. I am trying to avoid any group or kindred that refuses to acknowlege this. I am proud of who and what I am and that is a vital part of my calling. I refuse to deny it.

I have sent the email requesting an OR info pack and again my thanks to all for your comments and input.

Wassail,

Brian.

[Outdoorsman]

Hi Brian,

You might consider looking at the Grove listings at the AFA website. There are people listed there all across the Odinist/Asatru spectrum, so be careful and do your homework with whomever you might contact. But it might be a place to start looking for co-religionists in New Jersey.

http://www.runestone.org/flash/communication/grove/index.htm

[Schwarzesonne]

For most people ‘Odinism’ and ‘Ásatrú’ are synonymous. But some see different connotations to each of these terms. Whilst deciding which national organization and/or whether you can find a kindred that fits you I would recommend not basing your decision on the terminology. You’d be better off to find out what the individual you’re talking to means by the term.

[Brian]

Good and sound advice. Many thanks.