Vinland

[Mike_76]

I have a real beginner question:

Where or what is "Vinland?"

[Der Einzelgänger]

You currently reside in Vinland. Vinland is North America.

[Hengest]

Well, in a modern context it refers to the continent of North America.

In history it is the land discovered by Leif Ericsson which it is fairly universally agreed was modern day Newfoundland.

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1000Vinland.html

[Scramaseax]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinland


Vinland (pronounced "Winland") was the name given to part of North America by the Icelandic Norseman Leif Eiríksson, about year 1000. Later archeological evidence of Norse settlement in North America was found in L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland, Canada. Whether this was the Vinland of the Norse accounts is the subject of debate. It must be recognised that the Vikings did not perceive the exploration and settlement of Greenland and Vinland as any different than that of founding Iceland. It was merely an extension of their homeland and notions as to a different world only surfaced upon meeting the natives, noticeably different from Irish monks in Iceland. The colonization of the "New World" only occurred some time after Christopher Columbus discovered Central America for economic reasons.

[Mike_76]

Ok, Vinland = North America, according to Icelandic Norseman Leif Eiríksson, in about the year 1000, according to the information given in this thread.

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Buy the Vinland saga ;)

[Mike_76]

I have 3 other books I still have to read first :)

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Well when you get some extra reading time give it a look see. You can get it from World Tree Publications and I dont think you will be let down Bro :D

[valaskjalf]

Wasn't there grapes found there, Thus it's english for Wine land? I have read this in "Book of Vikings"

[KarlMagnus]

I have 3 other books I still have to read first :)
You can read both Greenlander's saga and Eirik's saga (also known as the Vinland sagas) in a couple of hours. Combined they are only about 50 pages.




Wasn't there grapes found there, Thus it's english for Wine land? I have read this in "Book of Vikings".

Well there is a small group who favors an interpretation of Vin to mean 'meadow'. However a passage from the Greenlander's saga points to the conventional (Vine, as in grapevine) interpretation.

Leif's foster-father, a German named Tyrkir disappears for a short while while Leif and his party are exploring the land. Leif begins to get nervous when Tyrkir comes out of the bush so exited he couldn't stop speaking in German for several minutes.
When he calms down he explains that he found wild grapes growing. When Leif ask if Tyrkir is sure they are grapes, Tyrkir replies that he grew up in a grape-growing region of Germany and he certainly knew they were grapes.

KM

[Schwarzesonne]

The most commonly accepted interpretation of Vinland is “wine-land,” but there are one or two other theories as well. I’ve seen some modern folks render it as Vínland, but this would change the translation to “friend-land” which wouldn’t make much sense historically.

Anyone who hasn’t read The Vinland Sagas: The Norse Discovery of America ought to. That book is one of my favourite saga books (includes both Grænlendinga Saga and Eirik’s Saga) and if you get the Penguin Publishiers version it’s inexpensive as well. :thumbup:

[Katia]

The Norroena edition of The Norse Discovery of America is hosted for free online reading on our website at

http://www.norroena.org/VikingSaga/index.html

[Scramaseax]

Wasn't there grapes found there, Thus it's english for Wine land? I have read this in "Book of Vikings"English for Wine land is Wine land. Vinland/Vínland is Old Norse.

[æinvargR]

I’ve seen some modern folks render it as Vínland, but this would change the translation to “friend-land” which wouldn’t make much sense historically. :thumbup:
It's the other way around; vín means wine and vinr friend, so Vínland would be "Wine-land" and Vinland "Friend-land". North America was called Vínland.

[Schwarzesonne]

It's the other way around; vín means wine and vinr friend, so Vínland would be "Wine-land" and Vinland "Friend-land". North America was called Vínland.

Oops! My bad! :nono: I guess that's what happens when the German guy tries to comment on Scandinavian language, eh?

[Odinskind]

Wasn't there grapes found there, Thus it's english for Wine land? I have read this in "Book of Vikings"
Yes I believe they brought back with them a longboat full of grapes from Vinland

[Hrafnas]

I remember reading an interview with Helge Ingstad mentioning that vin was also an old norse word for grass which fits incredibly well.

from http://www2.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/saga.htm:
"The Ingstads believed that the "vin" of Vinland referred to meadows rather than grapes and wine. They also made the deduction that since the members of the second expedition to Vinland asked for the use of Leif Ericson's houses at Vinland the settlement must be at a location that was unmistakeable."

There is also a spot in New Brunswick that has a great similarity to the Vinland Sagas's account but nothing has been found there yet. Although they have found butternuts at L'anse Au Meadow which shows that the Norse did make as far as New Brunswick.

[Midgarð Dweller]

Here's another question. Who designed the flag below? I've seen people use it to show that they are Odinist. I know it's the "fictitious" flag of Vinland, but would like more information.

http://www.patriotic-flags.com/viking/fic-vinl.gif

[Loki's Advocate]

"Late in the tenth century, the Norwegian Eric the Red, banished first from Norway and then from Iceland for unlawful killings, discovered Greenland and founded a colony at Brattahild. He had in his care there a woman called Gudrid whom Eric's son, Leif, had rescued from ship-wreck and who had been twice widowed. Leif sailed on west from Greenland and set foot on land (first sighted fifteen years before by Bjarni Herjolfsson) that he called 'Vinland' or 'Wineland' because of the grapes growing there. This discovery quickly led to further explorations. Thorfin Karlsefni was Leif Ericsson's brother-in-law; he was the first man to try to colonise Vinland- an ambition reluctantly called off when it became clear that the 'savages' (in fact, American Indians) would give them no peace... Vinland itself probably extended from north Newfoundland, perhaps as far south as New England. A Norse settlement dating from circa 1000 CE has been unearthed in Newfoundland."

[Hengest]

Here's another question. Who designed the flag below? I've seen people use it to show that they are Odinist. I know it's the "fictitious" flag of Vinland, but would like more information.



It is the flag of the "Technocratic Republic of Vinnland" or some such name and was devised by the guy (something Steele??) from the band Type O Negative.

[Don vonMilikowski]

It is the flag of the "Technocratic Republic of Vinnland" or some such name and was devised by the guy (something Steele??) from the band Type O Negative.


Peter Steele

[onionhead1112]

personally I refuse to recognise any so called vinland flag thet has a cross on it.Kind of goes against the grain of Asatru to display a cross bearing flag In my opinion.
I dont really know much of old norse but the word Vin meaning grasslands would fit much better then wine as there were no grapes that far north and so far theres been no evidence they made it farther south, not to say they didnt venture to explore or even trade for grapes , I hope another saga get proven in my lifetime.

[enslaved1896]

It is the flag of the "Technocratic Republic of Vinnland" or some such name and was devised by the guy (something Steele??) from the band Type O Negative.

Peter Steele to be exact :)

[KarlMagnus]

I dont really know much of old norse but the word Vin meaning grasslands would fit much better then wine as there were no grapes that far north and so far theres been no evidence they made it farther south, not to say they didnt venture to explore or even trade for grapes , I hope another saga get proven in my lifetime.

Well, I have no firm opinion on whether vin refered to 'meadows' or 'vines' but the Greenland saga specifically mentions grapes. Furthermore, to this day, wild grapes (vitis riparia) grow as far north as Quebec. One thousand years ago the earth's climate was significantly warmer such that the northern range of these grapes may well have extended into Newfoundland. At the time of Vinland's settlement viticulture was widely practiced in southern England. Today only vestiges remain of those old English vinyards due to climate change.

KM

[RagnarLodbrok]

The most commonly accepted interpretation of Vinland is “wine-land,” but there are one or two other theories as well. I’ve seen some modern folks render it as Vínland, but this would change the translation to “friend-land” which wouldn’t make much sense historically.

Anyone who hasn’t read The Vinland Sagas: The Norse Discovery of America ought to. That book is one of my favourite saga books (includes both Grænlendinga Saga and Eirik’s Saga) and if you get the Penguin Publishiers version it’s inexpensive as well. :thumbup:

Awsome adding it to my favorite list of books to get. :idea:

[Sigurd]

It is the flag of the "Technocratic Republic of Vinnland" or some such name and was devised by the guy (something Steele??) from the band Type O Negative.

A little more sincerity about other people's questions wouldn't hurt ;)

[Hengest]

I beg your pardon?

That is the answer to the question. Do you want me to make something up to make it more interesting?

[Don vonMilikowski]

"Once there was this band, the singer's name was Peter Steele. One day, he made a flag and a bunch of people liked it, the end"

I think this is more of what people were looking for....... Or maybe this version....

"Peter Steele not related to Remington Steele set forth one day from his recording studio in search of a new flag. This flag he proclaimed will be the flag of an new era, a new way of thinking. The people from all over came to see the flag. The flag was wonderous, it was Green, Black and White. There was bloodshed over the flag (a few paper cuts). People fought over the flag to see if it was indded good, some liked it, others felt the cross on it was bad. Oh Peter cried out please accept my flag as your new flag of your people, the Technocratic Republic of Vinnland....."

Is this better?

[Hengest]

Yes far more sincere. I humbly apologise for my short but truthful answer!

[Don vonMilikowski]

Oops, I was just having a little fun, trying to loosen the situation

[Hengest]

:D So was I, I wasn't having a dig at you. Just baffled!

[onionhead1112]

Well, I have no firm opinion on whether vin refered to 'meadows' or 'vines' but the Greenland saga specifically mentions grapes. Furthermore, to this day, wild grapes (vitis riparia) grow as far north as Quebec. One thousand years ago the earth's climate was significantly warmer such that the northern range of these grapes may well have extended into Newfoundland. At the time of Vinland's settlement viticulture was widely practiced in southern England. Today only vestiges remain of those old English vinyards due to climate change.

KM
thanks for the info didnt know,did know it got much colder than today just around that time as well lasting till into the 1700's I believe hence paintings of canals in netherlands and the Thames freezing over solid to walk on.no mention of this climate was made in many of the shows produced about the settlements other than they didnt survive and it got cooler.Even this year farming has again began in greenland again due to some climate shifts, global warming or natural, perhaps the warmer weather will bring new discoveries about the vinland and greenland settlements.

[Midgarð Dweller]

"Once there was this band, the singer's name was Peter Steele. One day, he made a flag and a bunch of people liked it, the end"

I think this is more of what people were looking for....... Or maybe this version....

"Peter Steele not related to Remington Steele set forth one day from his recording studio in search of a new flag. This flag he proclaimed will be the flag of an new era, a new way of thinking. The people from all over came to see the flag. The flag was wonderous, it was Green, Black and White. There was bloodshed over the flag (a few paper cuts). People fought over the flag to see if it was indded good, some liked it, others felt the cross on it was bad. Oh Peter cried out please accept my flag as your new flag of your people, the Technocratic Republic of Vinnland....."

Is this better?
So it's safe to say that most Odinists "frown" upon using this flag?
I've seen a lot of people use it; so I'm curious.

[onionhead1112]

So it's safe to say that most Odinists "frown" upon using this flag?
I've seen a lot of people use it; so I'm curious.
some do some dont, I dont as its a "'cross"' flag , so I personally just dont like it . others have no problem with it. Its a personal choice I guess if you like it or use it.It can be more to some or just a flag to others depends on what you use it for in my opinion.I prefer not to use it myself but thats just me. And curiosity has helped me out quite a bit by the way.

[Sigurd]

I beg your pardon?

That is the answer to the question. Do you want me to make something up to make it more interesting?

:eek:
Vinland flag is Peter Steele's design?

Bah, people following a flag designed by a man who posed for a hair magazine and a beuaty magazine... :(

[Don vonMilikowski]

An old girlfriend showed me the Playgirl he is in........ He and a walrus have a lot in common......

Would I fly his flag...... No - But I have flown a raven standard.....

Here is an idea, make your own flag if you are into that jazz.....

[Teufelhunden]

Peter steele is an Odinist?
What about that whole fruity album about vampires? My b inlaw listened to them allot when bloody kisses came out, and they seemed like a bunch of poser doofuses,, could be worng though.

[Don vonMilikowski]

To the best of my knowledge, no.

And he is not a fruit, I met an ex girlfriend of his, WOW......

[onionhead1112]

Peter steele is an Odinist?
What about that whole fruity album about vampires? My b inlaw listened to them allot when bloody kisses came out, and they seemed like a bunch of poser doofuses,, could be worng though.
nah your right they are a bunch of poser doofusus goth types. seem to be more into the vampire teeny bopper goth thing .its ok though for a short listen from time to time better than the garbage on the radio but doesnt take much to be better than that junk.not as cheesy as most goth type stuff.

[VinlandicSoldier]

Lan's Aux Medaow NFLD, Canada is the first known settlement in North Nmerica and is beleived to be the village that Leif Ericson himself resided at. I have been there, my family is from NFLD. I go every summer still. Currently the term Vinland represents eastcoast Canada all through the St. Lawrence and into Ontario. I could say that land surrounding these areas would be Vinland, but only Canada and specifically only the island of Newfoundland itself is Vinland, or Wineland(land of the grape vine).

[Teufelhunden]

did Vinland have an ARMY? hmmmmmmm :shrug:

[Katia]

I have been to Newfoundland in the past couple of years and I have never heard Newfoundlanders refer to themselves as Vinlanders.. More "Newfies". ;)

[Archer]

Currently the term Vinland represents eastcoast Canada all through the St. Lawrence and into Ontario. I could say that land surrounding these areas would be Vinland, but only Canada and specifically only the island of Newfoundland itself is Vinland

Wait, are you saying that Canada is Vinland, or just Newfoundland?

If all of Canada is "Vinland" than so is America.

Why?

There are no descendants of the Vinlanders left tody (ie Canadians are no more related to the settlers than Americans).

The term is used by modern Odinists to mean all of the North American land-mass (why not the South as well, logically) and not just the tiny historical site.

When one expand the the "borders" of Vinland to include B.C. and NWT and Yukon, we might as well include Pennsylvania, Maine, New Hampshire Texas, Florida, and Alaska, which in some cases are places closer to the actual settlement than a place like White Horse or Regina.

So why not America, guys?

We Americans are going to be left out of our Odinist Vinlandic identities by petty nationalism?

[KarlMagnus]

Vinland is what general consensus makes it. Most people consider Vinland to refer to North America despite the fact that only the northernmost tip of an island off the northeast coast of Canada can be confirmed as having been settled, or even sighted, by Leif.

Asia used to refer to what is now the modern country of Turkey. Today, by consensus, Asia is used to refer to the largest continent on Earth.

KM

[gefjion]

Well, I have no firm opinion on whether vin refered to 'meadows' or 'vines' but the Greenland saga specifically mentions grapes. Furthermore, to this day, wild grapes (vitis riparia) grow as far north as Quebec. One thousand years ago the earth's climate was significantly warmer such that the northern range of these grapes may well have extended into Newfoundland. At the time of Vinland's settlement viticulture was widely practiced in southern England. Today only vestiges remain of those old English vinyards due to climate change.

Growing up in Cape Breton, I used to eat what were called "Indian Pears". They're grape-like (if memory serves me correctly....but this was about 25 years ago, LOL) and quite tasty. I've always wondered if this might be the fruit that was found. Unfortunately, it's a local name for this fruit and I can't find any online reference to what the proper name might be, unless there are some Capers on this forum who can clarify. An internet search will show either prickly pear cactus or actual pears from India.

Nicole

[VinlandicSoldier]

Well, I have no firm opinion on whether vin refered to 'meadows' or 'vines' but the Greenland saga specifically mentions grapes. Furthermore, to this day, wild grapes (vitis riparia) grow as far north as Quebec. One thousand years ago the earth's climate was significantly warmer such that the northern range of these grapes may well have extended into Newfoundland. At the time of Vinland's settlement viticulture was widely practiced in southern England. Today only vestiges remain of those old English vinyards due to climate change.

Growing up in Cape Breton, I used to eat what were called "Indian Pears". They're grape-like (if memory serves me correctly....but this was about 25 years ago, LOL) and quite tasty. I've always wondered if this might be the fruit that was found. Unfortunately, it's a local name for this fruit and I can't find any online reference to what the proper name might be, unless there are some Capers on this forum who can clarify. An internet search will show either prickly pear cactus or actual pears from India.

Nicole
They may have also been partridge barries, which I think were native to the island.

[Hellqvist]

Lan's Aux Medaow NFLD, Canada is the first known settlement in North Nmerica and is beleived to be the village that Leif Ericson himself resided at. I have been there, my family is from NFLD. I go every summer still. Currently the term Vinland represents eastcoast Canada all through the St. Lawrence and into Ontario. I could say that land surrounding these areas would be Vinland, but only Canada and specifically only the island of Newfoundland itself is Vinland, or Wineland(land of the grape vine).

I think that's a fairly inaccurate statement. There aren't many here in Ontario who even know what 'Vinland' is, let alone refer to the Eastcoast as "Vinland" on a regular basis.