Ancestors

[davemint]

I am confused. Sorry for being such a newbie on this sorta thing my thread mite make no scense. I dont know whether ancestors had the religon odinism or another one. Im from sout east england and my freind said that my Ancestors were probably Anglo Saxon which are Protestant i think.. so what do you think?
(Just dont reply if you dnt understnad lol)

[Der Einzelgänger]

Well, Anglo-Saxon may mean Protestant now, I'm not sure, but back before xianity they practiced anglo-saxon heathenism. There are many different forms of Odinism. Check out this site for Anglo-Saxon heathenism. Very good site.

Anglo-Saxon Heathenism
http://www.englishheathenism.homestead.com/introduction.html

[Scramaseax]

I am confused. Sorry for being such a newbie on this sorta thing my thread mite make no scense. I dont know whether ancestors had the religon odinism or another one. Im from sout east england and my freind said that my Ancestors were probably Anglo Saxon which are Protestant i think.. so what do you think?
(Just dont reply if you dnt understnad lol)

Any English person probably has some Anglo-Saxon, Danish, Norman or Norse ancestry. How far back have you traced your family tree? It would help to know how long your family has been in that part of England. What do you mean when you say south east england? Sussex, Essex, East Anglia? Sussex and Essex were Saxons, East Anglia Angles.

If your ancestors were Anglo-Saxon their pre-christian religion is known today as Geleafawaer Fyrn Sida or Þéodisc Geléafa The first Anglo-Saxon to convert to Christianity was King Ethelbert, and he converted to Roman Catholicism about 601 AD. The Anglo-Saxons can be said to be Christianised by the early 700s AD. The Church of England seperated from Rome in 1536.

[Sigurd]

Oh, and how our ancestors believed in the gods! Some were Christened earlier or later. The first were the Goths in 485, and the last on the mainland, I think, Norway, 1030. So if you can trace your ancestry that far back to be Norse, they definitely believed in Odin, Thor etc.

[Scramaseax]

and the last on the mainland, I think, Norway, 1030.

The Upsala hof stood untill 1087, Sweden can probably said to be nominally Christian from about 1100, but there are heathen runic inscriptions from the 1200s. The Swedes at the Battle of Lena in 1208 attributed their victory to Odin. And clergy were still complaining about Heathens in the 1500s.

[Liffrea]

Anglo-Saxon does not mean protestant. Our ancestore used the term. Alfred the Great referred to himself as Rex Anglo-Saxonicum and the Byzantine historian Procopius used the term as well.
Anglo-Saxon, Dane and Normans are the same blood, Germanic and all worshipped the heathen gods originally.

[Sigurd]

The Upsala hof stood untill 1087, Sweden can probably said to be nominally Christian from about 1100, but there are heathen runic inscriptions from the 1200s. The Swedes at the Battle of Lena in 1208 attributed their victory to Odin. And clergy were still complaining about Heathens in the 1500s.

*red face* that's why I said, I think, cause I had heard of that evidence. But I think, that, officially Sweden was Christian earlier than theat. Of course nowhere the people liked the new teachings at the beginning,..

[æinvargR]

And clergy were still complaining about Heathens in the 1500s.
I'd like to read more about this, where did you find it?

Also some people secretly stayed heathens and bloted until the 19th century (!) at Trollkyrka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trollkyrka) in Sweden - which is about when people started to gain interest in asatru again.

[Sigurd]

Well...the religion has never died completely, so no wonder! (we're the proof that it hasnt disappeared :p )

[aud_friggsdottir]

Correct me if I am wrong (which I know you all will :))

But Lithuania (modern term I am sure) was Heathen till the 1500s as well?

I know one of the Northern "Russian" countries were till very late in the game. Also, the Finns (I think...still foggy this morning) still have their oral tradition, though it is quickly dying out. At least that is what was on the National Geographic Channel...or TLC... or Discovery...LOL...they all blur together.

[Scramaseax]

Correct me if I am wrong (which I know you all will :))

But Lithuania (modern term I am sure) was Heathen till the 1500s as well?

Lithuania was the last European country to convert, and did so in 1386 when the grand duke of lithuania married the polish queen

[Scramaseax]

I'd like to read more about this, where did you find it?

Olaus Magnus - "Historia de Gentibus Septentrionalibus" 1555

[aud_friggsdottir]

Lithuania was the last European country to convert, and did so in 1386 when the grand duke of lithuania married the polish queen

Is this a case of the country converting or simply the power structure (the Court)? Are there folk that never ceased to be Heathen there? That is not very long ago...in the wide scope of things.

And thanks...I knew it was late, but couldn't recall the exact date...off a bit, eh?

[æinvargR]

Either way it's impressive. Before that conversion, they were Christianized in the 1200s but returned to heathendom shortly after.


Lithuania was officially first Christianized in 1251 but soon renounced Christianity in 1263. After more than hundred years, in 1387, Lithuania was Christianized again. But for a long time the new religion retained only a superficial hold on the population, which remained “stubbornly pagan.” Church chronicles over the centuries reported staunch resistance to Christianity among Lithuanians. The last Pagan temple in the capital Vilnius was closed only at the end of the 18th century.
- http://www.vaidilute.com/asatru.html

[Loki's Advocate]

The Lithuanians also gave the Bolsheviks more trouble than any other of the Baltic states during and after the formation of the USSR. Always been a very proud people, the Lithuanians.

Good for them! :D

[Sigurd]

Good to know that Heathenry lived on for such a long time!

[Der Einzelgänger]

It still is alive, although more so than in those days.

[Scramaseax]

Is this a case of the country converting or simply the power structure (the Court)? Are there folk that never ceased to be Heathen there?


Long after the official christianization of the country, the Lithuanians venerated their ancient gods - Perkunas (Thunder), Zemyna, goddess of the earth, fate goddess Laima, and Gabija, goddess of fire. Historical documents indicate that at the end of the 19th - beginning of the 20th centuries people had been continuously worshipping and making offerings to the gods at the ancient sacred sites. Only in the small territory of west Lithuania about a thousand ancient ceremonial sites have been registered. These shrine-mounds, sacred springs, oaks, and stones are still celebrated by local people.

The Grand Duke Jagello was a Pagan, the Polish Queen Jadwiga was Christian, and in order to secure the marriage he had to have Lithuania convert to Christianity. He wanted Lithuania to conform with the rest of Europe. Simple politics. If you're interested in their faith then the best site is Lietuvos Romuva (http://www.romuva.lt/index.php?kalba=engl), which is where the quote is from.

[Liffrea]

The Grand Duke Jagello was a Pagan, the Polish Queen Jadwiga was Christian, and in order to secure the marriage he had to have Lithuania convert to Christianity. He wanted Lithuania to conform with the rest of Europe. Simple politics. If you're interested in their faith then the best site is Lietuvos Romuva, which is where the quote is from.

Hmmm those pesky Christians used politics in many ways to spread their ideology. Talk about control freaks.

[Der Einzelgänger]

Good things times have changed. All the politics in the world couldn't change my faith.

[aud_friggsdottir]

The Grand Duke Jagello was a Pagan, the Polish Queen Jadwiga was Christian, and in order to secure the marriage he had to have Lithuania convert to Christianity. He wanted Lithuania to conform with the rest of Europe. Simple politics. If you're interested in their faith then the best site is Lietuvos Romuva (http://www.romuva.lt/index.php?kalba=engl), which is where the quote is from.


Thanks for the link! I will read up on it :D!

[Scramaseax]

Hmmm those pesky Christians used politics in many ways to spread their ideology. Talk about control freaks.

Actually it was pretty much Jagello's idea.

[Sigurd]

It still is alive, although more so than in those days.

D'uh, I know it still is but I mean that after the Christenization that the Heathens would not accept the new religion, I think it is good that they gave resistance to the ignorant and idiotic Xian dictatorship and indoctrination.

[KarlMagnus]

And clergy were still complaining about Heathens in the 1500s.
There is a story that when Christian IV Kink of Denmark went to Norway to survey his domain (at that time Norway was under the Danish crown) he asked to be taken into the forests. While travelling on the road they came upon a farmstead.

The family greeted him and invited him to eat with them. When his retainers or guides explained that this was their king, king of all Denmark and Norway the wife or daughter was excited and decided to show them the family's most prized possesion in honour of the occasion. She rushed into the house and brought out a fancy wooden box and held it out to him.

The king opened the box wherin he found an object wrapped in a linen cloth. He unravelled the cloth and found a large dried horse phallus. The family were apparently heathens (Freyr worshippers perhaps?). Anyway, King Christian was disgusted. He threw the thing into the nearby lake. He then claimed to have converted the last heathens in Norway.

This was in the 1600s.

Karl

[Liffrea]

The old beliefs never really died out it would be good to find more stories of "surviving heathens".