Slander! - UPDATED.. Good news! [Archive] - Odinist.com Folkish Odinist Forum ~ ODINISM ~ Heritage Forums

Katia

06-01-2005, 08:13 AM

I got this from another list.. We have been slandered in the New York Times!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/01/politics/01scotus.html

"The five Ohio inmates who brought the case belong to nonmainstream religions, including one, Asatru, that preaches that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the "mud races." "

I have written an email to the editor of this article expressing my discontent with her generalizations and lack of proper research. Another point I made was that the KKK was a Christian based terrorism group, so should people generalise Christianity as this type of faith as well? This article just made me so mad!

I think it is our duty to all contact this newspaper and share our distaste with this article. There were many other news articles concerning this matter that reported the news and did not go out of their way to slander our faith -- they need to be made known of this.

Please remember not to use profanity, be firm yet respectful.. and use your spell check! It sounds trivial but it makes a difference.

Ways to contact the New York Times:

To write to the writer, e-mail ligree@nytimes.com
It is also a good idea to CC the editor so they know they are receiving complaints!
The editorial page editor, e-mail editorial@nytimes.com

You may mail your letter to:

Letters to the Editor
The New York Times
229 West 43rd Street
New York, NY 10036

Or fax it to: (212) 556-3622.

Teufelhunden

06-01-2005, 09:37 AM

These were my 2 cents......

I take serious issue with your paper branding "Asatru" as a racist faith, based on one person whom you cam across in prison. You obviously know nothing about Odinism or our faith, The KKK was a christian based group, would you label all Christians as such? I think not. You took no time to research it, and just used a typical liberal media knee jerk reaction to something you took no time to understand and it is slanderous. We pride ourselves on Honor, integrity, and self reliance, many things that are lacking in today's society. Next time you write about our God's or people I would hope you actually look into it before you go branding an entire faith. Christianity conquered Europe by the sword and used torture and murder to convert. Islam has done much the same and is still doing so today, and I will bet you that you would not dare write anything disparaging about either faith because it is so un PC, but go out of your way to bash whites and a faith that is centuries older and northern European based. I would ask that you write a retraction to such allegations but I am realistic, and expect you probably will not. You can not possibly label a whole faith off the basis of one misguided person, I take particular offense since I am also of German ancestry, and our faith has nothing to do with Nazi's, or racism, and is the oldest Germanic faith also followed by the Viking peoples.
Next time try showing us the same consideration you would to and Islamic or Christian, after all I do not run around bashing other faiths.
Regards,
Chris
will it make a difference, probably not they are way too PC left leaning, but at least you can be heard...
Teufelhunden

Scramaseax

06-01-2005, 10:36 AM

aud_friggsdottir

06-01-2005, 10:49 AM

I got this from another list.. We have been slandered in the New York Times!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/01/politics/01scotus.html

"The five Ohio inmates who brought the case belong to nonmainstream religions, including one, Asatru, that preaches that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the "mud races." "

I have written an email to the editor of this article expressing my discontent with her generalizations and lack of proper research. Another point I made was that the KKK was a Christian based terrorism group, so should people generalise Christianity as this type of faith as well? This article just made me so mad!

I think it is our duty to all contact this newspaper and share our distaste with this article. There were many other news articles concerning this matter that reported the news and did not go out of their way to slander our faith -- they need to be made known of this.

Please remember not to use profanity, be firm yet respectful.. and use your spell check! It sounds trivial but it makes a difference.

Ways to contact the New York Times:

To write the editorial page editor, e-mail editorial@nytimes.com

You may mail your letter to:

Letters to the Editor
The New York Times
229 West 43rd Street
New York, NY 10036

Or fax it to: (212) 556-3622.

OH Good Gods! How do these people get their jobs...? Letter WILL be sent today!

FFF
K

Scramaseax

06-01-2005, 11:13 AM

What is the title and date of the article, and the author's name? I'm not interested in registering with them to find out.

Katia

06-01-2005, 11:53 AM

Well that is strange, I don't understand why it won't let some read the whole article without registering.. let me post it here so all have access to it and the author, title, etc. I would limit the replies to 150 words or less, more than that probably wouldn't get read anyways.. and I think our point can be made in 150 words or less.

Supreme Court Rules in Ohio Prison Case
By LINDA GREENHOUSE
Published: June 1, 2005

WASHINGTON, May 31 - The Supreme Court ruled unanimously on Tuesday that a new federal law requiring prison officials to meet inmates' religious needs is a permissible accommodation of religion that does not violate the separation of church and state.

The Opinion The court rejected arguments by Ohio officials that the law, the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act, violated the Constitution by elevating religion above all other reasons a prisoner might seek special privileges.

The state had said that by requiring prison officials to cater to the demands of adherents of Satanist or white-supremacist religions, the law would result in attracting new followers to these sects, to the detriment of prison security.

The five Ohio inmates who brought the case belong to nonmainstream religions, including one, Asatru, that preaches that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the "mud races."

In her opinion for the court, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the state's fears were unfounded. The Congressional sponsors "were mindful of the urgency of discipline, order, safety, and security in penal institutions," she said, and "we do not read" the law to "elevate accommodation of religious observances over an institution's need to maintain order and safety."

Justice Ginsburg said that under Ohio's constitutional argument, which the federal appeals court in Cincinnati accepted last year in invalidating the statute, "all manner of religious accommodations would fall." She noted that many accommodations have been widely accepted: Ohio itself provides prison chaplains for "traditionally recognized" religions, and Congress has authorized military personnel to wear yarmulkes and other religious apparel while in uniform despite a Supreme Court ruling that such an accommodation was not constitutionally required.

The Supreme Court has had a sometimes troubled history of defining where the two religion clauses of the First Amendment overlap: the Free Exercise Clause, which protects religious practice from government interference, and the Establishment Clause, which in Justice Ginsburg's words "commands a separation of church and state."

From the tone of this latest decision, Cutter v. Wilkinson, No. 03-9877, it appeared that the court was seeking to defuse the tension inherent in the two clauses. "Our decisions recognize that there is room for play in the joints between the clauses, some space for legislative action neither compelled by the Free Exercise Clause nor prohibited by the Establishment Clause," Justice Ginsburg said.

The ruling marked the latest chapter in a 15-year dialogue among the court, Congress and the states over the degree to which the government may take religious interests into account in law or official policy. The statute in question, passed in 2000, is a direct outgrowth of that dialogue, which began with a 1990 Supreme Court case from Oregon, Employment Division v. Smith.

The court ruled in that case, about American Indians' religious use of an illegal substance, peyote, that the government's refusal to grant religion-based exemptions to the general application of its laws did not violate the Free Exercise Clause.

Congress reacted swiftly and, by large margins in both houses, passed the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which required the government to accommodate religious practices unless it had a "compelling" reason not to do so.

In 1997, the Supreme Court, taking the Religious Freedom Restoration Act to be an assault on its institutional prerogatives, declared it unconstitutional on the ground that Congress lacked authority, at least in the circumstances of that case, to define the meaning of a constitutional provision and to impose that meaning on the states. The full impact of that decision, City of Boerne v. Flores, continues to play out across the court's federalism docket.

The law's supporters regrouped and arrived at a different approach. The Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act addressed only two types of government action: zoning and the rights of inmates of prisons, government-run mental hospitals and other public institutions.

Scramaseax

06-01-2005, 01:16 PM

Dear Editor,

I am writing to voice my objection to the article "Supreme Court Rules in Ohio Prison Case" dated June 1st. In this article Linda Greenhouse comments on two Asatruar inmates. She states that Asatru "preaches that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the "mud races"". This assertion is simply absurd and has little basis in reality. The other newspapers covering the story did not describe Asatru in this manner, so it seems the synopsis came from Mrs. Greenhouse alone. I wonder what her source was as I have attended Asatru gatherings and never once heard this alleged ideology preached. It is this type of prejudice that Asatruar don't need perpetuated by a newspaper making a pretense of being accurate and unbiased. If this description of Asatru came from the inmates themselves then they are at odds with the majority of the Asatru community worldwide. Asatru is the ancestral religion of the Germanic people; it is no more racist than a Jew following Judaism or a Japanese following Shinto. It displays an appalling lack of research on behalf of the New York Times to summarise an entire religious tradition extending back some forty thousand years in such a manner. Most religions have their fringe elements; the Middle Eastern religions especially come to mind. All it would have taken was a simple internet search to determine that this explanation of Asatru is tantamount to slander.

Scramaseax

06-01-2005, 01:32 PM

It was only one inmate :mad: too late now though

Draconian Umpire

06-01-2005, 02:17 PM

The New York Times? SLANDERING???

Well, golly, that's new to me....[/sarcasm]

Jay

06-01-2005, 03:12 PM

My letter to them is this:

I do not agree with your generalizations of the Asatru faith. *In your
article about the Supreme Court decision in the Ohio prisons you post an
irresponsible comment such as this: *"The five Ohio inmates who brought the
case belong to nonmainstream religions, including one, Asatru, that preaches
that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the
"mud races." "

Asatru does not teach that; violence and terrorism is taught by people to
each other and although every faith system has its extremist wing it is false
to categorize Asatru as a faith that teaches violence and terrorism. *

If you did some research into my faith you would see we preach the Nine Noble
Virtues. *The Nine Noble Virtues are: *Courage, Truth, Honor, Fidelity,
Discipline, Hospitality, Industry, Self-Reliance, and Perseverance. *I don't
think I need to explain them to you. *Nowhere do we teach that anyone of a
different race is our enemy and should be dealt with violently. *That is
injected into our faith by individuals with their own agenda.

I am the webmaster of www.odinist.com and we have a specific policy there of
not allowing the racist element of Asatru to be known on that bulletin board.

You could say the same thing about the Christian faith as well, since over
the years they have proven far more racist than any Asatru group with the
Christian Inquistion and other genocidal-type crimes. *You could even go back
into the 50's and 60's - and in some cases still find certain Christian
churches in the South - that still practice segregation.

I would suggest that you further your research into my faith before printing
false statements that demonize my faith and further creating ignorance and
close-mindedness.

Jay Ashman
XXXXXX
XXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX
--
Jay Ashman
Odinist.com Forums - http://www.odinist.com/forum
Odinic Rite - http://www.********rite.org
++++++++++++++
"Lo' there do I see My Father,
Lo' there do I see My Mother
and my Sisters, & My Brothers.
Lo' there do i see the line of My People, back to the Beginning
Lo' they do call to me,
They bid me take my place among them,
In the Halls of Valhalla,
Where The Brave May Live Forever!"
++++++++++++++

Jay

06-01-2005, 03:15 PM

Keep in mind that I did fix and typos before I mailed it out and those asterisks are there because of copy and paste and not in the letter itself.

If we are to write them, be sure we are not writing out of anger and instead out of the need to educate and show them what the truth is.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-01-2005, 03:50 PM

It was only one inmate :mad: too late now though
You would think the new york times would know not to base judgement on a religion on the words of ONE person. Guess not.....

pinlighter

06-01-2005, 04:20 PM

A fine letter, Jay.

Norsk Blod

06-01-2005, 04:44 PM

I agree, very well spoken Jay!

Norsk Blod

06-01-2005, 05:05 PM

This is the message I sent to them

Dear NY times

I recently read your article "Supreme Court Rules in Ohio Prison Case" and noticed that you said Asatru was a white supremacy religion. How can you people let something like that print with such false information. If you had even done a little research into our faith you would have seen that we are not hate filled racists and that this one man's psychotic attempts to foul our faith is not the mind set of our religion at all. several terrorist believe in the Muslim faith but would you dare write an article that says the Muslim faith is an Arab-supremacy religion? If you are going to base something off of the mindset of one Individual then would you call Christianity a white supremacy religion? After all Hitler was a Christian, would you condemn his faith because of his ideals?
I suggest you do some research before you make such blatantly un-informed allegations. Here some sites that I suggest you look at

http://www.********rite.org/index2.html
http://odinist.com/othala/index.php?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/asatru.htm

C. King

Teufelhunden

06-01-2005, 05:21 PM

Bravo guys !!!!!!!! :)

Brand

06-01-2005, 06:19 PM

I'm a Correction Officer and am employed in the Ohio prison system. Athough this article appeared in The Times it is indicative of the same incredible ignorance that I have seen displayed by corrections staff. Asatru has always been labeled as white supremacism in the Ohio system. I'm firm in my beliefs about keeping work and religion separate so for the most part I have allowed them to continue te revel in their stupidity.

I have followed this lawsuit for some time now. I might add that at the institution that I work at,they do far more than accomodate Xtianity,they try to shove it down your throat. I've witnessed full-fledged,bible thumping outdoor revivals,as an example. How about a program that sequesters inmates for three days and bribes them with street food to "accept Jesus as....etc."? As I said,none of my business,as an officer,but it does explain Ohios' futile defense of its' policies.

This article does deserve a strong response from all of us. I will try to post mine as soon as I compose one. :D

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-01-2005, 06:26 PM

beowulf

06-01-2005, 06:30 PM

Umm,not to be anal, but the stupid generalization on the part of the NYT woman would actually be libel as 'tis printed me thinks.
I will try to fire off my own properly indignant letter to the Sulzberger kosher gefilte fish wrap aka "All the news we deem fit for you to see." :rolleyes:

Brand

06-01-2005, 06:39 PM

Yes,I most certainly am an Odinist,and I agree with you completely! Since this is not within my professional capacity I'm free to act on it.

Katia

06-01-2005, 07:04 PM

Good going everyone, our voices were heard! I received a response from the writer!! Here it is:

"My description came from a citation in the Ohio brief (p. 6) to M.
Gardell, Gods of the Blood (2003), describing the Odinist/Asatru movement
as calling for "nothing less than total, uncompromising war . . . the only
chance the White Race has of surviving is through violence and terrorism.
The Mud Races will never leave peacefully." I'm sorry that this offended
you. Sincerely/ Linda Greenhouse"

I replied to her asking if, now that she has been informed, she plans on writing some form of retraction. We will see if it works!

Her direct email address is ligree@nytimes.com . For all of you who have already sent a response, I would suggest emailing it again to her directly now.

It is still important to write in!! To those who have not done so yet, I think the best idea would be to send her the email, and CC it to the editor. The editor needs to know there are complaints as well! That address is: letters@nytimes.com

Brand

06-01-2005, 08:55 PM

Hello,
I am writing in reference to a recent article appearing in the times. It concerns the Supreme Court decision regarding religious accommodation of prisoners.

I am certain that you are now aware that the references to the religion of Asatru are untrue and offensive to those of us who practice it.

It is my understanding that the source of this information is evidence presented by the state of Ohio in defense of its' assertions. I am employed by the Department of Rehabilitation and Correction in Ohio,and consequently have observed the progress of this case with great interest. The Ohio DR&C has political interests that conflict with the interests of the inmates involved in this case. The sources used in their evidence is merely a way of supporting their case and are anything but factual.

The most cursory research on the Internet will present a far more objective picture of Asatru. It is a faith that stresses the importance of family and community ties,honorable behavior,and responsibility for ones' own actions. In my opinion,adherence to its' tenets would be of benefit to the rehabilitation of inmates,not a detriment!

In light of these facts,I believe a clarification(or retraction) of your statements would be in order. I am certain that journalistic integrity is of value to you.

Done! Thanks for the heads up Katia!

BerserkrKin

06-01-2005, 09:39 PM

ERRR give me a day or 2 to make somthing intelligent and error free and ill send a complaint

Mike_76

06-01-2005, 09:56 PM

It's on my short list to write a letter in also.

Mike_76

06-01-2005, 10:08 PM

Katia, is there a word limit on letters to the editor? there usually is, otherwise they'd get innundated with essays. I don't suppose they'll give a **** about a letter from New Zealand, but I suppose there's no harm. Except maybe getting on some list as a violent terrorist who wants victory over the mud races :rolleyes:

I *think* but I'm not sure, Scramaseax, that the word limit is 250 words. I wrote a letter to the editor to my local paper and it was rejected on word length, and that's what I remember they told me. My paper is part of the Knight-Ridder national chain in the USA, so I'm guessing it might be similiar.

Scramaseax

06-02-2005, 05:24 AM

"My description came from a citation in the Ohio brief (p. 6) to M. Gardell, Gods of the Blood (2003), describing the Odinist/Asatru movement
as calling for "nothing less than total, uncompromising war . . . the only
chance the White Race has of surviving is through violence and terrorism.
The Mud Races will never leave peacefully." I'm sorry that this offended
you. Sincerely/ Linda Greenhouse"

I can't help but suspect she knew exactly what she was doing. I havn't read Gods of The Blood but I'm sure it says alot more about Asatru than that. Of all the descriptions and all the books she could have read, this is the one she selected. It was totally arbitrary and she knew it.

That address is: letters@nytimes.com

I thought it was editorial@nytimes.com ?

Scramaseax

06-02-2005, 08:28 AM

Katia

06-02-2005, 09:26 AM

I have no idea where she got that from... but in any case, it is bad research, and for someone writing for a newspaper of the calibre of the NY Times, she should have known better to do a bit of outside research first.

Both the editorial and letters email addresses work, sending them to either should be fine!

I got another reply this morning...

"I will pass our correspondence on to the religion desk - they are in a
better position than I am, and I certainly agree with you that readers
should have the full picture. Best regards/ LG"

We are getting through to them, it seems! I don't know if she is trying to "pass off" this problem to another department, but in any case, the more people that are involved, the better for sure. If we can convince the NYTimes to change their definition of Asatru.. that will be a major accomplishment! Good going everyone!

Sigurd

06-02-2005, 12:59 PM

This sucks! It is always the newspapers who are not informed enough, and write rubbish about everything just to produce a great story, and to manifest the believes of the mainstream etc.
For example, I, in fact, had a certain newspaper article written about me once, as I was regarded as one of the highest-intelligence people of my hometown, and since I was solving complex algebraic equations etc. in my primary (Tiroler Tageszeitung, July 20, 1998). This was when I was 9 years old (almost 10). To make me look like the wonderchild, they made me a year younger (nothing so bad about that), but then due to lack of information, they, assuming that my computer was standing in a certain room, that this was my bedroom, and they called it "spartanic". They also invented something about me being good in football, because they somehow wanted to hide my inability at that certain sport :confused: probably because I said that I was not good at it.(despite, by now, I have become quite alright as a goalkeeper). So, they were just assuming. Same here. They judge by one source of information, and they misinterpret things. So, if that guy said, "I am Asatru, and I am a racist," then they i) generalize: "We are Asatru, that is why we are racist.," and ii)twist around everything to make a better story. "I am racist, because I am Asatru".
And, then, you get the salad. As easy as that. The news again! :rolleyes:

Schwarzesonne

06-02-2005, 08:30 PM

I am writing you in reference to the 1 June 2005 article SUPREME COURT RULES IN OHIO PRISON CASE by Linda Greenhouse. In this article Ms Greenhouse states: “The five Ohio inmates who brought the case belong to nonmainstream religions, including one, Asatru, that preaches that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the "mud races."

Asatru (also known as Odinism) does not preach anything of the sort. Ours is the familial faith of the Germanic/Teutonic peoples. Like folk religions of other parts of the world, Asatru primarily focuses on building the connections between ourselves and our families (including ancestors), our ancestral gods, and with Nature. We do not promote any particular socio-political positions, and include adherents representing a wide range of opinions in these areas.

To characterise all the practitioners of our faith in such a manner is not only misinformed, but also irresponsible, as your readership relies on you for accurate reporting. Recognizing the integrity that characterizes your newspaper I am sure that you received information from a less-than-reliable source. Accurate information about Odinism/Asatru is readily available both in literature and online, and seeking it out would require very little effort.

I am requesting that you print a clarifier in your paper. Even if it is brief, at least The New York Times will not be perceived of as being slanderous, and will be in a position of maintaining its reputation for quality, accuracy, and reliability.

~~Steve Anthonijsz

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-02-2005, 08:37 PM

Jay

06-03-2005, 04:31 AM

Every one of you who wrote the NY Times did a commendable job. :)

Katia

06-03-2005, 04:38 PM

WOW you guys - it worked! Check out the email I just got from the writer!

"We are running a retraction - it should appear within the next few
days, but I don't know yet exactly when. Thanks for your input. LG"

Thanks to everyone who took the time to write -- This is a major accomplishment for real! :D

Sigurd

06-03-2005, 04:45 PM

That's good news. I was actually going to do one, but I found no space in time to accomodate drafting it up, and besides when they would have found out that I am only 16, that would have probably ruined it, as they would change it to "insane kid's religion"... :rolleyes:

Norsk Blod

06-03-2005, 06:05 PM

this is good news!!
Sigurd they woudnt have known your age, and as long as it was a well thought out and worded letter then it would show you have intelligance

pinlighter

06-03-2005, 06:26 PM

Hmmmm!!!! Let's see what they actually retract!!

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-03-2005, 06:33 PM

Hmmmm!!!! Let's see what they actually retract!!
As long as it is the Neo Nazi BS generalizing our faith, that's all that really matters to me. Be nice if someone wrote up a decent article on Asatru that actually shows what our faith is REALLY about. That's all a pipe dream though.

Katia

06-04-2005, 11:06 AM

Corrections
New York Times
Published: June 4, 2005

An article on Wednesday about a Supreme Court decision upholding a law that requires prison officials to accommodate the religious needs of inmates included an incomplete description of the Asatru religion practiced by some inmates in the case. Based on the brief the Ohio attorney general submitted to the court, the article characterized Asatru as advocating violence by the white race against the "mud races." But other Asatru followers say that the use that some violent and white-supremacist prisoners make of the religion is a perversion of its peaceful and nonracist beliefs.

it's an OK retraction.. But I still wrote another letter to the heads of the newspaper.. Momma isn't satisfied yet.. LOL!

Sigurd

06-04-2005, 12:25 PM

At least that has been made clear.

aud_friggsdottir

06-04-2005, 12:28 PM

aud_friggsdottir

06-04-2005, 12:30 PM

As long as it is the Neo Nazi BS generalizing our faith, that's all that really matters to me. Be nice if someone wrote up a decent article on Asatru that actually shows what our faith is REALLY about. That's all a pipe dream though.

The only pipe dream is the papers actually printing it. There have been TONS of articles written and submitted (I believe).

Sigurd

06-04-2005, 12:37 PM

I agree it is Ok, but now we sound like pacifists...do they think people are either one extreme or the other? :rolleyes: ...

I know, but at least it's better in the face of society. Pacifists are well-respected, White Supremacists aren't (due to some landsman of mine 70 years ago who wanted to take over the world...). So, well... but we're mainly peaceful, it's not like we're a group of terrorists, is it?

aud_friggsdottir

06-04-2005, 04:03 PM

I know, but at least it's better in the face of society. Pacifists are well-respected, White Supremacists aren't (due to some landsman of mine 70 years ago who wanted to take over the world...). So, well... but we're mainly peaceful, it's not like we're a group of terrorists, is it?

Oh! I totally agree... Societies can only think in extremes right now...Just annoying...not really looking for resolution.

And well terrorists? Depends if the "powers that be" decide to dislike a certain group this week. It is such an ambiguous word nowadays that is solely defined by the power structure...it is disgusting. The bell of that article has already been rung, can't be "unrung"...most will not read the retraction. That is the folly of modern media...blare lies from a bullhorn then whisper a retraction.

Nonetheless...at least it is a retraction.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-04-2005, 04:07 PM

Oh! I totally agree... Societies can only think in extremes right now...Just annoying...not really looking for resolution.

And well terrorists? Depends if the "powers that be" decide to dislike a certain group this week. It is such an ambiguous word nowadays that is solely defined by the power structure...it is disgusting. The bell of that article has already been rung, can't be "unrung"...most will not read the retraction. That is the folly of modern media...blare lies from a bullhorn then whisper a retraction.

Nonetheless...at least it is a retraction.
Why give up there? We should be persistant untill we get a GOOD retraction that fits our liking.

Sigurd

06-04-2005, 04:29 PM

Why give up there? We should be persistant untill we get a GOOD retraction that fits our liking.

I agree somehow, even though they probably perceive it as penetrant. Then again, it was a long lasting movement to get women the vote, and they never gave up and eventually got it, so we'll get our positive retraction at some point.

Katia

06-04-2005, 04:51 PM

The only really good thing I can think of is that the original article was in the paper on Tuesday and this retraction was sent out on the Weekend paper which is much more popular and is read by a larger audience...

Mike_76

06-04-2005, 05:47 PM

I wasn't sure where this retraction story is, but I just sent this in anyway, because I said I would:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

To the editor of the New York Times:

I am writing in response to a piece in your newspaper, dated June 1, 2005, by Linda Greenhouse. The name of the article is “Supreme Court Rules in Ohio Prison Case.”

I refer to the following passages:

The state had said that by requiring prison officials to cater to the demands of adherents of Satanist or white-supremacist religions, the law would result in attracting new followers to these sects, to the detriment of prison security.

The five Ohio inmates who brought the case belong to nonmainstream religions, including one, Asatru, that preaches that the white race needs to use violence and terrorism to prevail over the "mud races."

I have no idea where or how Ms Greenhouse got her information, or what type of research she did if any. I am familiar with and practice Asatru, or, as it is sometimes called, Odinism, and there is absolutely no mention of any type of violence or terrorism against “mud races” or anyone else, and I find these charges particularly bizarre and untrue. It comes across to me as a story with a hateful political or religious agenda. Asatru is older than Christianity, and I’ve never seen any mention of “terrorizing mud races” and no one I have talked to has either.

I do think an immediate apology and a retraction are called for

Sincerely

Mike (My last name)
Fort Wayne, IN
(my phone number)

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-04-2005, 09:12 PM

I wonder how many angry Asatruar/Odinists/Heathens sent e-mail to the NY Times when this article came out? We are just one message board and quite a few of our members sent e-mails, myself included even though I had to calm down for a while before I wrote it :o There are so many other forums and lists our there I can only imagine how many e-mails and letters they have recieved, I bet the woman who wrote the article feels like an idiot now :D

aud_friggsdottir

06-05-2005, 03:09 AM

Why give up there? We should be persistant untill we get a GOOD retraction that fits our liking.

Agreed.

Not give up...I was a little jumbled...but rather hope for the best. I should have said...the retraction is "Ok"...meaning could have been better. I think they should publish one of the currently written positive Asatru/Odinist/etc... articles that are out there as a retraction. I am a bit of a pessimist when it comes to these matters, hence the tone of my posts.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-05-2005, 03:21 AM

Agreed.

Not give up...I was a little jumbled...but rather hope for the best. I should have said...the retraction is "Ok"...meaning could have been better. I think they should publish one of the currently written positive Asatru/Odinist/etc... articles that are out there as a retraction. I am a bit of a pessimist when it comes to these matters, hence the tone of my posts.

I get that way sometimes but lately ive been trying to find the good in all things, trying to see the pint glass as half full I guess :D I think if the retraction isnt that good, we send them some GOOD and POSITIVE articles about our faith to print and if they dont, we keep on bugging them untill they finally give in and do it.

Scramaseax

06-05-2005, 04:57 AM

Sigurd

06-05-2005, 05:43 AM

anyway, i have now decided that another retraction may sound a bit stupid, so we might just as well get a whole article done about us, from a source that does proper research to clarify it. I mean there's probably quite a number of people that could be interested in Asatru, but simply didn't know that it existed, thinking that their Germanic forefathers were Christians since the cruzifixion of the corpus christi.

Mike_76

06-05-2005, 03:00 PM

Sigurd: anyway, i have now decided that another retraction may sound a bit stupid, so we might just as well get a whole article done about us, from a source that does proper research to clarify it.

Somehow, Sigurd, I don't think that source is the NYT. It seems to be either we are living in bunkers, getting ready for the race war, or else pirouetting through woodland glen with Druids, faeries and witches, celebrating the joy of diversity and tolerance with our transgendered Brothers/sisters?/whatever?

Well, I got this reply:

From: Linda Greenhouse <Ligree@nytimes.com>
To: Mike K <k.mike.76@gmail.com>
Date: Jun 5, 2005 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Asatru

Thank you for writing. For your information, a correction ran in the
"corrections" section of the Times on June 4. Sincerely, Linda Greenhouse

Although I did not see the retraction in google, but did see the original article HERE (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=asatru&btnG=Search+News)

Sigurd

06-05-2005, 04:18 PM

Yeah but maybe we could get somebody to tell people what exactly it should say in an article

Katia

06-05-2005, 05:15 PM

www.nytimes.com/2005/06/04/pageoneplus/corrections.html

this is where the retraction is located....

Mike_76

06-06-2005, 03:21 PM

.....this is where the retraction is located....

You know, Katia, I can't even make myself register for the Times, I don't want to add to their power anymore than what they already have. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone. Anyway, I did send a follow up letter, in light of the recent comments by Hved, Sigurd, etc.

Please note how I tried to artfully interweave recent comments on this board in my letter. Please note I said I tried :) ha ha. Any feedback, positive or negative would be apprciated.

I wrote this, maybe someone else can do something else, lets see what she has to say, if anything:

Dear Linda

Thank you for your response. Although I appreciate the fact that the
Times ran a correction, I think the damage has been done. I'm guessing
many more people read the original article
than the correction, isn't the ratio something like 10 to 1? So
overall, more people have a bad impression of Asatru than before the
article was written, I'm speculating.

It is pretty typical though, as Asatru practitioners seem to either be
portrayed as white supremacists, getting ready for the race war, or if
not that, then they are portrayed as new age people dancing though
woodland glen, magic wand in one hand and healing crystals in the
other.

Neither viewpoint is correct. Asatru is the indigenous religious and
philosophical traditions of the European peoples. Some speculate that
the roots of Asatru might go back as far as 40,000 to 20,000 years
ago.

Granted, most of the practitioners of Asatru are indeed "white
people," but if I recall correctly, The NYT has reported favorably on
other racial or cultural groups and customs such as the NAACP,
Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, Cinco De Mayo, and even some Muslim traditions. I
do believe in this day and age, saying positive things about a group
of people who are primarily of European descent is considered
dreadfully out of fashion.

On the other hand, Linda, this is your chance to undue some damage
that has been caused, and I believe that you personally would get
quite a bit of respect for doing such a piece. You could even help
improve the image of the times as it has a leftist bent in many
people's eyes.

I don't consider myself an expert in Asatru as I am a beginner, but I
am in contact with people I do consider experts, and I can put them in
contact with you if you want to do an interview. It's really very
interesting, I think, and Asatru has traditions that go back to the
vikings.

Thank you very much for your consideration.

Sincerely

Mike (my last name)
Fort Wayne, IN
(my phone number)

Mike_76

06-06-2005, 03:33 PM

Wow, I got a quick reply, I must have caught her at her desk. This is what she said:

From: Linda Greenhouse <ligree@nytimes.com>
To: Mike K <k.mike.76@gmail.com>
Date: Jun 6, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: Asatru

I've recommended such an effort, and I hope someone at the Times will do
it. It doesn't fall in my jurisdiction, nor do I have the power to assign
it, but I have suggested it to the National Desk. Thanks for your
input. Linda Greenhouse

to which I replied:

From: Mike K <k.mike.76@gmail.com>
Reply-To: Mike K <k.mike.76@gmail.com>
To: Linda Greenhouse <ligree@nytimes.com>
Date: Jun 6, 2005 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: Asatru

ok, thank you. Not knowing what else to say at this point.

I really think this was a very good idea, Katia, and that an favorable article in the NYT would be quite an accomplishment. Does someone else want to take the next step? I'll keep going if other people will. I think if we work as a team, we can do it.

hrolf

06-06-2005, 04:25 PM

I think that it would do us a lot of good to get that kind of publicity. We may get more people interested in our ways.

Outdoorsman

06-06-2005, 06:38 PM

You know, Katia, I can't even make myself register for the Times, I don't want to add to their power anymore than what they already have.

You don't have to. Use this. http://bugmenot.com/

Katia

06-06-2005, 10:25 PM

Sweet, Mike! I wrote a long email to the general editor of the newspaper suggesting they prepare some kind of article on Asatru as well, I also left my home phone number in case they needed anyone to talk to or to interview or whatever. I definitely think this needs to be pursued until we get what we want! :D

Mike_76

06-06-2005, 11:15 PM

I do too, Katia, and I think Hved and Sigurd do also. I bet Jay does too, I'm not sure. I bet others do also. But the NYT is the biggest newspaper in the world! or close to being the biggest. I mean MILLIONS Of people read the NYT.
And the opportunity is here and right now, it seems.

Did you see where she said that she suggested it to the National Desk? Should I see if I can get their email?

I am thinking that if someone mentions the days of the week come from Asatru and/or our culture (Tyrsday, Wodensday, etc.), or I also heard that women were property owners and had higher positions in the old societies (according to odin radio) people would be interested, and most people have heard of Thor and Odin already. There is so much that I think would be interesting to the average person. And of course the vikings.

But they need to give us an interview.

Mike_76

06-06-2005, 11:22 PM

You don't have to. Use this. http://bugmenot.com/

thanks, Outdoorsman!

Sigurd

06-10-2005, 11:13 AM

Well it is always good to stride towards the official article. I mean, it is not like we got anything to lose, and if we get something accurately written, then this is all the better.

Mike_76

06-10-2005, 01:52 PM

I think so too, Sigurd.

Katia, if you are reading this, do you want me to get the email address of the National Desk? I do have it in writing that one of their reporters requested an article. Let me know if you want me to do that, or something.

Katia

06-10-2005, 04:29 PM

Yes, Mike, that would be great... Thanks :)

Mike_76

06-11-2005, 01:43 PM

Done, Katia, I'll post the reply when I get it. Very nice signature BTW :)

Mike_76

06-12-2005, 07:15 PM

making progress, I'm having an email conversation with Linda Greenhouse, the reporter, more coming soon.

Sigurd

06-13-2005, 04:35 AM

That's good news. Hopefully she wouldn't make the same mistake again :rolleyes:

Mike_76

06-13-2005, 06:16 PM

I don't think so Sigurd.

OK, please no one, do not do anything but please read the post after this one please!!! There is time to do this right.

here is the correspondence: (I love gmail as if you have a conversation with someone, it organizes into a thread inside your inbox, just like a message board.

This might be overkill to write all this out but better safe than sorry.

she originally said to me (in reference to an interview in the NYT about Asatru):

I've recommended such an effort, and I hope someone at the Times will do
it. It doesn't fall in my jurisdiction, nor do I have the power to assign
it, but I have suggested it to the National Desk. Thanks for your
input. Linda Greenhouse

I replied:

Dear Linda

Could you give me the email address of the National Desk, mentioned directly below in your email?

Sincerely

Mike (last name)

she replied:

Mike - the national desk as such does not have an e-mail address - various individuals there do. The editor I spoke to was Alison Mitchell - almitc@nytimes.com Best regards/ Linda

Then I said:

Dear Linda

Thanks for replying. If I or some of my associates correspond with
Alison Mitchell, do you mind If I or my associates mention that we
spoke with you, or use the email that you sent to me, in
correspondence, regarding the National desk? I really don't know my
way around newspapers and would prefer not stepping on any ones toes
if possible.

thanks again for your time.

Sincerely

Mike #####

she replied:

Mike - why don't you send a fresh e-mail and say that you and I
communicated and agreed that the Times readers would be well served by a
piece about Asatru that would look behind the caricature presented by
Ohio's brief in the Supreme Court prison case. Alison Mitchell will
undoubtedly remember that this is the conversation she and I had. Best
regards/ Linda

I then said:

Linda

OK, that's sounds like a plan. I think the last point then is: I
wanted to update my associates and get them involved if possible. If
I tell them to go ahead and email Alison for reinforcement, along the
point we discussed. If they said that I had talked to you, how would
that be with you? It is provided that they will be civil and not
flood her email with 100's of emails or that type of thing.

I think this is the last point I am unsure of. Please advise. Thanks
again for your time, Linda.

Mike

and she finished the conversation except for thank you's, with:

MIke - one e-mail on behalf of the group will be sufficient. I can assure you that the editors are used to getting mass e-mails, and it is less
effective than one authoritative and persuasive one. Best. Linda

Mike_76

06-13-2005, 06:31 PM

So, the way it stand now, is:

Linda Greenhouse a reporter with the NYT, has corresponded with Alison Mitchell, who works in the National Desk. Linda recommends that the NYT does an interview with or about Asatru, and said that I should send ONE email. She also said that I should mention this fact to Alison Mitchell, about the correspondence with her (Linda).

I have an opinion that there are a couple of points that the NYT would find interesting. I beleive the New York Times leans to the left politically, but their readers would find it interesting that women were held in higher esteem and given more power in the heathen societies than in traditional Christian societies at least according to a show I heard on Odinist radio. perhaps reference for nature could be another point, as "womens rights" and the "envirionment." have been more left-wing issues than right-wing issues.

I certainly don't think I am the person to give an interview as I am a beginner, but I do feel pretty comfortable handling the correpondence end as I do sales and marketing and trust me on this, it is a skill.

Ok I am not going to do anything until we on this forum talk and plan on putting the/ or a letter up here in this forum first.

thanks

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-13-2005, 06:56 PM

I think Steve McNallen should be contacted about this. I think he would do our faith Justice. :)

Mike_76

06-13-2005, 07:02 PM

Hey Hved, you might note that I posted the same thing twice about two or three posts back somehow. I know you like to keep things neat around here :D

I agree with your choice of Steve McNallen personally.

I have ALison's title also now. I can't think of anything else at this point.

Katia

06-15-2005, 03:57 PM

Steve McNallen or Heimgest would be the obvious choices, if they have time...

battleax

06-16-2005, 02:52 AM

not sure if someone posted this already

CORRECTION-DATE: June 4, 2005

CORRECTION:

An article on Wednesday about a Supreme Court decision upholding a law that requires prison officials to accommodate the religious needs of inmates included an incomplete description of the Asatru religion practiced by some inmates in the case. Based on the brief the Ohio attorney general submitted to the court, the article characterized Asatru as advocating violence by the white race against the ''mud races.'' But other Asatru followers say that the use that some violent and white-supremacist prisoners make of the religion is a perversion of its peaceful and nonracist beliefs.

Sigurd

06-16-2005, 04:38 AM

Yes, it s been posted battleax

But we want a proper one not a small line one, we even want a proper article :D

Sigurd

06-16-2005, 11:26 AM

I think Steve McNallen should be contacted about this. I think he would do our faith Justice. :)

Not wanting to hurry or anything,
but has anybody contacted him yet about this, or will this happen at some time in the near future?

Mike_76

06-16-2005, 11:34 AM

Sigurd: Yes, it s been posted battleax

But we want a proper one not a small line one, we even want a proper article :D

Yes indeed! I am getting nervous though becuase we are sitting on this, and I feel the time is right to strike, so to speak. I thought everyone would would jump all over this...Katia, Jay, and so on. Let's not drop the ball

I don't really feel like I am the person in charge of this, but there are two things
that need to be done.

1. contact the person (Steve or someone else) to give an interview
2. prepare letter for NYT, to set up the interview (this part I think I should do as I have the contact now, but might need to be group signed)

I think everyone need to put up what they are doing on this thread, so the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.

Katia are you reading this? or Jay? or Hved? I perceive Katia as the leader as she began this, to her credit, correct me if I am wrong. what's the next move? who's going to contact Steve, or how are we going to decide who gets to do the interview? They (the NYT) might not do it, but I am guessing they will, Newspapers ALWAYS need stories and we have the backing of the original reporter in writing.

Mike_76

06-16-2005, 11:45 AM

Not wanting to hurry or anything,
but has anybody contacted him yet about this, or will this happen at some time in the near future?

I read this after I posted, good question Sigurd; but I think we DO need to hurry.

Mike_76

06-16-2005, 01:40 PM

maybe I am paranoid, but I was thinking just now..would the NYT use the interview to smear Asatru again?
....

...

I don't think so...I hope not...it's the opposite of what I was told..I don't think so, but I could be wrong.

edited in later: this point could be specified or made explicit in a letter correspondence though.

Scramaseax

06-16-2005, 02:18 PM

I just emailed info@runestone.org about it, but someone else probably has a more direct way of contacting him.

Mike_76

06-16-2005, 07:19 PM

I just emailed info@runestone.org about it, but someone else probably has a more direct way of contacting him.

I think Hevd knows him a bit, but I could be really wrong about that.

before I said:

edited in later: this point could be specified or made explicit in a letter correspondence though.

What I meant to say was that I think I can figure out the questions to ask to find out upfront if the interviewer would get ambushed. I think I am going to PM a couple of people on this forum to try to get them involved after a little time has passed.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-16-2005, 07:24 PM

I think Hevd knows him a bit, but I could be really wrong about that.

Few e-mails sent back and fourth, thats about it. He probably wouldnt know who I was if asked :p

Jay

06-19-2005, 09:06 PM

I agree, Mike, this is something we call can work on.

Mike_76

06-22-2005, 05:43 PM

Thanks Jay, I am going to try to get ahold of Steve McNallen, athough from what I've read he is hard to get ahold of. Is his location of residence publicly known?

Boy I just got blindsided attacked for putting up an odinist link, at another forum. I thought it easily fit well with the topic at hand. I was accused of everything from following something that was only 30 years old, to engaging in channeling, crystals and what not. I'm wondering if I just stumbled across a nutcase or if this is par for the course.

I wonder how many of these online rambos would have the guts to say things they say online to people's faces. I am still boiling a bit.

Anyway, I will try to get ahold of Steve, but if anyone wants to jump in and help, the more the merrier.

Mike_76

06-22-2005, 05:59 PM

I wanted to add, if someone has someone else in mind besides Steve for this, speak up and make your voice heard. Thank you.

Katia

06-22-2005, 10:57 PM

I will try to assist you fellas with this when i can, I am visiting family right now and my internet access is pathetic!!

Teufelhunden

06-24-2005, 09:48 AM

Yes Mike he resides in Nevada city California [ Calasa kindred], think he is in the book..
I have traded emails with him , very nice guy and think he would be of mind to help..
Teufelhunden

Mike_76

06-24-2005, 02:15 PM

you are a good man, Teufelhunden, I will email him today or tomorrow.

I have to finish writing a reply on another message board, calmly (I hope) explaining that asatru is older than 30 years, and we don't use crystals, or channel the gods or do things with our heart chakra's, whatever heart chakra's are.

The message board is read by probably 300-1000 people so I'm going to be careful in my wording.

Nice banner, BTW, I hope one of mine is done soon.

Scramaseax

06-24-2005, 02:20 PM

What's this message board anyway?

Mike_76

06-24-2005, 02:29 PM

What's this message board anyway?

er, well I'm not sure I should say, as I don't know if the powers that be here on this board,want it's members to involve other boards. It's on Yahoo and tied to a pretty major website. I would not mind actaully posting my reply here first, just to clarify my thoughts. I can PM you of course, if you want to look. I think the mod there deleted part of it as it got a bit..er...animated? :)

Teufelhunden

06-24-2005, 03:58 PM

I have to finish writing a reply on another message board, calmly (I hope) explaining that asatru is older than 30 years, and we don't use crystals, or channel the gods or do things with our heart chakra's, whatever heart chakra's are.

ROFL, oh and do not forget dancing nekid in the forrest calling the corners, and following that "ages old religeon" lol If ages old is 30 or so years I am older than wicca? LOL
Thanks about the banner, It came out way cool, I want to know what program they used . I woudl love to make stuff like that for Shirts ets. :)

Mike_76

06-25-2005, 08:10 PM

Just sent a PM to get Steve's email address.

Mike_76

06-26-2005, 09:09 PM

Just sent:

To: info@runestone.org
Date: Jun 26, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Urgent: New York Times Interview (not spam) To Steve McNallen

Dear Steve McNallen:

My Name is Mike (my last name), I live in Indiana, and I am a beginner
Odinist. I am a member of an on line Odinist group, and we recently
discussed a very unfavorable article about Asatru that was written in
the New York Times. Many of us wrote in and complained, and they
issued a retraction. To make a long story short, I had a conversation
with one of the reporters with the Times, and she is recommending that
a story is done to counteract the damage of the first article.

I am pretty sure we can get an interview with the New York Times at
this point. We would like you to do the interview, as we feel that
you would do a good job. I am handling the correspondence end with the
newspaper.

My question to you Steve, is, do you want to do an interview on Asatru
with the New York Times. I do want to make sure if possible, that you
get a fair and objective hearing. It would be appreciated very much
if you could do this.

Sincerely

Mike (My last name)

Mike_76

06-26-2005, 09:13 PM

Eh. Well I've written better, but I guess it will do.

On another note I sent in my reply on odinism on the other message board I post to from time to time, I was lucky in that a folkish individual interceded and made mincemeat of the original attacker. I am waiting for moderator approval.

Scramaseax, if you want to take a look, send me a PM and I will send you the link.

Jay

06-26-2005, 10:46 PM

I am proud of all of you for seeing through with this, is there anything that you need me to do to help?

Mike_76

06-26-2005, 11:11 PM

From: Stephen McNallen <afa@lanset.com>

Date: Jun 26, 2005 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Urgent: New York Times Interview (not spam) To Steve McNallen

Greetings, Mr. (my last name)!

Thank you setting up such an opportunity, and for your confidence
in my ability!

I would be very glad to participate in an interview with any
fair-minded reporter at the New York Times. The reporter who wrote the
original article - Ms. Greenhouse, I think? - would be quite acceptable.

Best wishes,

Steve McNallen

Mike_76

06-26-2005, 11:15 PM

OK maybe we can get this wrapped up tomorrow..I am going to try to get working on this in mid morning tomorrow....if you're around tomorrow Jay or anyone I'll put correspondence on and people can comment..I'll try to be here 10:30 AM EST

Mike_76

06-27-2005, 03:48 PM

sorry I had an unavoidable delay, I will be back here @ 10:30 AM EST tomorrow if anyone wants to help or suggest anything.

Katia

06-27-2005, 10:33 PM

Teufelhunden

06-28-2005, 12:27 AM

what exactly does poo feel like? <W> :D

Mike_76

06-28-2005, 08:38 AM

what exactly does poo feel like? <W> :D

If you have a dog in a fenced in back yard, go walk around in it barefoot, you'll know what it feels like in no time :)

Mike_76

06-28-2005, 08:43 AM

Hey there Mike, this is awesome, it really is! I'm so sorry I haven't been able to help out more in this respect, I feel like poo as I am the one who started the whole revolution here then I suddenly disapeared ;) hahaha! Know that it wasn't my intention, I'm visiting family in Montreal right now and my brother's computer has a virus that makes it crash every 4 minutes or so. I gotta type super fast then type send before the bugger collapses on me. LOL. So needless to say I'm not getting much done online.
Well I am glad someone was able to pick up the ball and run... if this article is printed it could truly be revolutional for our faith!! Thanks again Mike!~

Don't feel bad, it was your idea that got it started, and then everyone helped with the letters, and then really, Hved and Sigurd came up with the idea of a new interview and then I just found myself in a good postion, Jay has helped with giving "management support." everybody has helped.

it truly has been a group effort. now it is first and goal from the 5, hope we can score a touchdown. (I'm talking about the game of football for all you Europeaners :) )

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-28-2005, 08:45 AM

They call Soccerr "Football" in europe, weirdo's........

Mike_76

06-28-2005, 12:03 PM

They call Soccerr "Football" in europe, weirdo's........

yes, I think you are right, Hved...also, I think they call Rugby "football" in the land down under, Australia...

Well, one letter sent to Steve, to get some background information, waiting to hear back from him....

Mike_76

06-30-2005, 11:31 AM

I'm still corresponding w/Steve McNallen...back and forth.

"We don't report the news, we make it"

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

06-30-2005, 12:55 PM

I'm still corresponding w/Steve McNallen...back and forth.

"We don't report the news, we make it"
Good! Hopefully something can be worked out and the NYT's will actually do something good for a change :D

Mike_76

07-01-2005, 04:54 PM

your avator and the saying in my signature go together well, Hved. Let me know if you want it, I can find something else pretty fast.

Just got a note from Mr. McNallen, he is swamped right now but said he would write tomorrow. Then the letter to the NYT can be written.

Mike_76

07-05-2005, 11:30 AM

I'm going to send an email to S. McNallen, very soon. He was supposed to email me back on Sunday, he said he had been swamped.

Mike_76

07-07-2005, 08:49 PM

I've gotten what I need from S. McNallen and have sent an email to the NYT.
Steve is a good writer, and Asatru is a good religion, and the ideas in this thread are sound (that others came up with). Therefore I feel confident, because I'm selling a good product.

Norsk Blod

07-07-2005, 09:26 PM

let us know when the NYT prints that article with Mr McNallen

Mike_76

07-07-2005, 09:34 PM

Hey, where've you been N Blod, I haven't seen you for awhile. :)

Yes indeed I will keep all informed, I am just trying to set it up at this point
I don't want to count my chickens before they are hatched, though.

(that's an American slang that means, put another way, I don't want to celebrate victory before it's actually happened, in case you've never heard it before)

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

07-07-2005, 09:39 PM

Norsk Blod is from the USA Mike.....

Mike_76

07-07-2005, 09:58 PM

Hveðrungr Norsk Blod is from the USA Mike.....

Blushing bright red... :mad: ooops I knew that, I knew that, I just forgot for a sec...I was thinking he was from Germany for whatever reason when I wrote that. That's what happens when you get old, Hved, you get so much stuff in your head, some of it gets mixed up :) that and your body start to ache.

Sorry about that Norsk Blod, an honest mistake on my part.

Norsk Blod

07-07-2005, 10:53 PM

Blushing bright red... :mad: ooops I knew that, I knew that, I just forgot for a sec...I was thinking he was from Germany for whatever reason when I wrote that. That's what happens when you get old, Hved, you get so much stuff in your head, some of it gets mixed up :) that and your body start to ache.

Sorry about that Norsk Blod, an honest mistake on my part.
no problem bro, but germany? I could see thinking I was from norway but.. ;)

I can understand where your coming from though. Lets hope this really does happen, and thats its a decent size interview and doesnt get cut up.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

07-07-2005, 10:53 PM

Dont sweat it man, honest mistake. :)

Mike_76

07-08-2005, 10:06 AM

no problem bro, but germany? I could see thinking I was from norway but.. ;)

well, please don't try to make sense of it, I occasionally get days of the week mixed up..it might be the mental illness (for me) of Xtianity wearing off. It seems to be improving in time....Most days I can walk and chew gum at the same time, so I'm ok.

Yeah, like us hope this works out man, I am being very careful to do everything structurally correct, and get Steve a fair chance, so he doesn't get smeared.

Mike_76

07-12-2005, 07:23 PM

One letter of request has been sent to a National Deputy Director of the New York Times. Not an "official" one as I wanted to make sure I was talking to the right person.

pinlighter

07-13-2005, 01:14 PM

Keep it up Mike - this is good work :)

Mike_76

07-13-2005, 01:36 PM

thanks, :) I haven't heard anything back yet.

Mike_76

07-13-2005, 06:52 PM

I'm supposed to take my request to one of, or THE religion writer of the NYT's and she will be on vacation until 07/25. I'm asking if anyone else is available.

Her name is L. Goodstein. I'm not particularly pleased by this development and I'm guessing a sharp eyed reader of this post can figure out why.

Mike_76

07-14-2005, 12:40 PM

If anybody is interested, here are some other articles by Laurie Goodstein, which you can read

HERE (http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&q=laurie+goodstein&btnG=Search+News)

pinlighter

07-14-2005, 01:49 PM

Could be worse. She doesn't seem rabidly left-wing and PC.

I don't think there is any point in trying to blur the nature of Odinism or present it in a way she will find more friendly . . we must just be honest.

Mike_76

07-14-2005, 06:53 PM

Could be worse. She doesn't seem rabidly left-wing and PC.

That's good to hear, I haven't read her articles yet. I noticed quite a few on Billy Graham, who is hardly a rabid left winger.

I don't think there is any point in trying to blur the nature of Odinism or present it in a way she will find more friendly . . we must just be honest.

Yes I agree, honesty is the best policy, but I didn't want to lead with my chin, or what I speculate is a negative in the eyes of the NYT's either. the two features of Asatru I stated were:

1.
Asatru as a pre-christian religion, gave women higher status and more rights than many religions that followed it, including some in existence today

2.
The Characters of "Lord of the Rings" are based on the stories in Asatru.

Both points are true, I believe. If she asked I certainly would tell the truth as a far as being for people of European decent. Is it safe to say that Asatru is arguably one of the fastest growing religions in the North American continent?
Or the world?

It is good thing that the person is on vacation as any points can be thought out with a little more time that can be used wisely. It's a shame that it has kind of gone out of the original loop with the original reporter, Linda Greenhouse, as she WANTS to do the interview. I thought her contact, the deputy national editor was the decision maker and I think so did Linda, but that was not the case.

Still I have her recommendation (Linda's) that the interview be done. Although she admits she is "low on the totem pole" as far as decision making goes.

The funny thing is, Mr. McNallen spontaneously mentioned that he thought he would get a fair shake with Linda, so there are two people who want to connect, but I don't see how it is possible....but I am hoping that an opening will appear.

Worse case scenario is that they say "NO" and we will all go on and survive. I think it was worth pursuing though, and still do. LOL although I admit it will sting though if it doesn't happen.

This has gotten fairly complex, so if any one has any questions, please ask.

Sigurd

07-14-2005, 09:07 PM

Thanks Mike, its great how you are working on this, and updating us about it currently. Keep up the good work.

well I mainly hope two things, and I think that everyone is in accordance with me about that:

I hope that we
1)get the article
and
2)see it done favourably.

All I got to say tonight.

:)

Mike_76

07-17-2005, 02:42 PM

pinlighter

07-17-2005, 02:45 PM

I think your "sacrifice" is your time and work. But I'll defer to those senior to me.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

07-18-2005, 02:42 AM

Well, as it stands now, I think there is about a 50/50 chance of S. McNallen getting an interview with the New York Times. I want to seek the guidance of the Gods, or the "Gods" if you prefer, on this matter . I am such a beginner I don't know what to do...should I offer a gift or sacrifice of some sort?

advise, please.
I find that to be complete BS. First they slander our faith then print some small dinky retraction. They should let someone do an interview who knows WTF they are talking about. If they dont allow it, I am going to e-mail every single day in protest and anyone who knows me, knows I will do it!

MacQuiston

07-18-2005, 03:36 AM

I find that to be complete BS. First they slander our faith then print some small dinky retraction. They should let someone do an interview who knows WTF they are talking about. If they dont allow it, I am going to e-mail every single day in protest and anyone who knows me, knows I will do it!

I will also help you e-mail in protest :D

pinlighter

07-18-2005, 03:43 AM

Katia

07-18-2005, 07:22 AM

Agreed.. I am willing to email every day, too.. But the emails need to be respectful and non-confrontational (to a degree) for us to be taken seriously.. Let's first see what they plan to do, then take it from there...

Mike_76

07-18-2005, 08:28 AM

Well, the reason that I said that there is a 50/50 chance is, the original interviewer WANTS to do an interview, and told me to contact the deputy director, which I did. I was then told to contact the religion writer, as that would be the person who would actually be doing the interview. The religion writer is on vacation until 07/25. I'm not sure, at this point, if she is the ultimate decision maker

According to the original writer, Linda Greenhouse, a single letter, written by one person, is more effective than a group of people bombing them with complaints, requests, etc. Now, if you start bombing the original writer with email, you are going to make me look like a king size ****. I really don't want that.

Who are you going to start emailing everyday, exactly?

I am as frustrated as anyone at this point, and angry, and considering all the email going back and forth, I want this more than anyone on the planet.
that's why I asked for advise, because I want to access the gods for guidance, and would appreciate someone telling me how to go about doing so, as I never done it officially.

However, I don't think going off half cocked is going to make anything better. They don't HAVE to do anything..It might be a good idea putting pressure on them, Like Hved says, but if that's the case, then go for the upper management, or the owners of the paper. Shoot high, IMO.

Mike_76

07-18-2005, 08:41 AM

the fact is, we have the North American originator of one of the fastest growing religions in the USA and Europe (I don't like wording it as "the fastest growing religion" as it sounds too subjective), and he is a powerful speaker, which is a strong point on it's own merit. There are probably a small handful of national newpapers who WANT to give Steve an interview, at any given time. He has a very strong resume.

Ok, I'm going to get breakfast.

Lee

07-18-2005, 01:20 PM

Just to echo Mike’s words in regard to a starting up a mass e-mailing campaign if they don’t run the story. DON’T DO IT!! 

I used to run a Satanic magazine (it’s a long story) and people here may recall last year the story of the first British member of the Armed forces (the navy) to be officially classified as a Satanist? For about a week it was pretty much the biggest story on the planet! The matter was even raised in the House of Parliament.

We’ll my magazine broke that story and from dealings with everyone from the BBC, CNN, every major newspaper in the UK and the US, you have to treat the press with kid gloves. If they want to run the story, they will. If something better comes along, they’ll simply dump the story and print something else.

Not how things should work of course, but sadly that’s the way they work. No amount of e-mails from disgruntled Odinists will change their minds if they aren’t going to run the story.

A mass campaign of e-mail writing would not make us look “professional” in their eyes and would seriously hamper any hope of getting the story published and probably finish us in the eyes of the NY Times as a credible and serious religion.

If the piece gets printed, that of course would be excellent but if it doesn’t, unfortunately we may have to simply accept that that’s the way the media does things and move on. There will be other stories about Odinism that will cause newspaper coverage and what usually happens is that Mike or Steve for example, is put down as a “Asatru” contact who may be contacted again if Odinism/Asatru hits the headlines.

Hopefully the story will be printed but if it isn’t, believe me, it would be in Odinism’s best interested not to react angrily to the NY Times.

Mike_76

07-18-2005, 02:04 PM

I wanted to add something I've learned about selling. It's taken me 20 years to see this very simple thing, and it might sound counter-intuitive to some, but I believe it to be a profound truth in this particular occupation:

To succeed in selling, deal ONLY or primarily with people who are ready, willing, and able to buy your products, now or in the near future. "Persuasion" is a waste of time. Yeah it works sometimes, but overall it does not, and you will do more harm than good by trying to manipulate or pressure someone into doing something. Everyone has their own cycle and trying to FORCE them though it does more harm than good.

It's better to take NO for an answer, you'll leave a good impression, and you can check back with them later and give them a different "offering" without annoying them.....things can change over time.

It's best to have a bunch of possibilities, rather than just one, of course as at any given time, SOMEONE is likely going to be ready to run with yout product (or interview in this case), if your product is a viable one.

It seems "weak" in a way, still to me, and I still mentally am trying to grasp this simple concept. But I don't think it's weak, I think it's the smart way of doing things. I believe it's the way things really work.

I could go on but I have to get some things done. I've tried to be very transperent in my dealings, and i have all the original emails if anybody wants to see anything. I guess I am feeling a little defensive now, Like maybe I should have done something different, and maybe I should have.

I will say this: I did try to contact a fellow odinist, by PM and also by yahoo messenger about this issue, and never got a reply. I did need someone to bounce things off of, and never heard a word. Why are they so concerned now, if they weren't concerned before? I could have used their input at the time, as they generally seem to exhibit good judgement.

pinlighter

07-18-2005, 07:04 PM

Mike, this has rested on you, and whatever you do it will be by your judgment.

What you say about only selling to the willing is true and makes me believe you will do as well as any one can.

That doesn't mean you'll succeed in getting an interview, but that is reality: we try and perhaps we fail.

But we always fail at some point. It's never as good as it might be in an ideal universe, but it's not an ideal universe. No need to condemn ourselves

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

07-18-2005, 07:10 PM

I will say this: I did try to contact a fellow odinist, by PM and also by yahoo messenger about this issue, and never got a reply. I did need someone to bounce things off of, and never heard a word. Why are they so concerned now, if they weren't concerned before? I could have used their input at the time, as they generally seem to exhibit good judgement.

You never needed my help Mike. I told you to take the bull by the horns and do it if you wanted and you did just that. Ive always been concerned, just because I wasn't there to hold your hand through things does not mean I didn't care. Used my input for what? You got the wheels moving on this long before you wanted to start asking for my help and you've done a good job, not keep it going.

P.S. Im barely EVER on yahoo, I told you long ago to get MSN messenger as it is my "Messenger of choice".

You wanted to do this and your doing it, you never needed anyones help as its obvious you've done pretty good so far.

Mike_76

07-18-2005, 09:56 PM

You probably did tell me and I missed it....I was kind of frustrated when I wrote that.

I wasn't looking for someone to hold my hand so to speak, LOL, what a mental picture that is...Ha Ha...just to bounce off ideas so to speak. It's been frustrating because I thought it was in the bag, and now it's not. I was lashing out a bit, sorry.

a lot has come more into view, and I want to set myself up in a win/win sitatuation rather than this win/lose ordeal.

Still I want to know..if a person wants to seek the guidance of the gods, what should he give as a...gift? some wine? a ten dollar bill? Throwing a virgin into a volcano? Where would I ever find a virgin these days....

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

07-18-2005, 10:01 PM

I always pour my first and last beer for the gods when im drinking. You could always raise a boar and sacrafice it ;) :p

Mike_76

07-18-2005, 10:05 PM

what do you do, just pour it on the ground? how about food? just leave it outside or something? I know what I want to say and who I want to say it to.

I edited my last post after you posted a reply, FYI.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson

07-18-2005, 10:20 PM

I would bury the food, pork would be best to use. Allso pouring some beer or mead is allso a good idea.

Mike_76

07-18-2005, 10:23 PM

ok thanks, Hved.

Sigurd

07-22-2005, 05:47 PM

I always pour my first and last beer for the gods when im drinking. You could always raise a boar and sacrafice it ;) :p

lol not much different here. At least one of my beers is always "for the gods" (others go "for friendship", "for our folk", etc.)

Mike_76

07-22-2005, 06:00 PM

lol not much different here. At least one of my beers is always "for the gods" (others go "for friendship", "for our folk", etc.)

I guess it can't hurt to use two beers, although I was thinking of wine as I've read Odin drank nothing BUT wine.

Sigurd

07-22-2005, 06:23 PM

I guess it can't hurt to use two beers, although I was thinking of wine as I've read Odin drank nothing BUT wine.

Use Mead! It can't ever be wrong, there!!! :D
And it will go for wine-like and beer-like beverage, if you get what I mean...

Mike_76

07-22-2005, 06:32 PM

Use Mead! It can't ever be wrong, there!!! :D
And it will go for wine-like and beer-like beverage, if you get what I mean...

Where, Sigurd, does one get Mead?!? I live in Indiana. I've never seen it at a liquor store or anyplace I can think of.

Norsk Blod

07-22-2005, 06:50 PM

you brew it yourself :)

Sigurd

07-22-2005, 07:30 PM

Where, Sigurd, does one get Mead?!? I live in Indiana. I've never seen it at a liquor store or anyplace I can think of.

That IS a good question.... well... in Austria it exists in some "selected" supermarkets but the quality is *puke*. I've tried one especially good one though that I got at this sort of "Medieval Times Festival", forgot who had it though. However I do recall having come across a mailorder which ships mead. With three problems: 1)it is situated in Germany, 2)I yet have to find it again. 3)They probably have one that is entirely different.

But you will probably be best to look out for Medieval Festivals, if they exist where you live, there is a higher chance that you will get some there. However they don't take place at every place and every time.

You brew it yourself.

Probably the easiest, but maybe most time-consuming option. ;)

Mike_76

07-28-2005, 01:55 PM

awaiting a reply from Steve McNallen...........

Norsk Blod

07-28-2005, 01:57 PM

Probably the easiest, but maybe most time-consuming option. ;)
yea it takes about 3 months or so to completly ferment

Katia

07-28-2005, 04:55 PM

Heya guys, I started a new thread in the General Discussion section about Mead (http://www.odinist.com/othala/showthread.php?p=6208#post6208) Let's continue this conversation there and leave this one on topic :)

Teufelhunden

07-30-2005, 04:56 AM

Mike,
Turns out he is a very nice man, just very busy. Give it time and he will reply to ya :)

Mike_76

07-30-2005, 05:36 PM

He did reply to me. and yeah he is a real nice man.

Mike_76

07-30-2005, 05:46 PM

yea it takes about 3 months or so to completly ferment

Well, raising and butchering a boar and making my own mead just isn't going to happen this time around..and a medival festival are about as plentiful as flying saucers right chur in good ol' Indiana. Hey. we have a popcorn festival though.

I do have a champion pig breeder in my recent family tree, lots of us in Mike's family were farmers and such a generation or two back...I might be a good breeder of boars if I ever give it a go :)

Mike_76

08-04-2005, 12:36 AM

I still haven't heard from Steve, after he replied briefly, I might need to give him a nudge.

Sigurd

08-05-2005, 07:27 PM

Well, raising and butchering a boar and making my own mead just isn't going to happen this time around..and a medival festival are about as plentiful as flying saucers right chur in good ol' Indiana. Hey. we have a popcorn festival though.

I do have a champion pig breeder in my recent family tree, lots of us in Mike's family were farmers and such a generation or two back...I might be a good breeder of boars if I ever give it a go :)

Well you can certainly try to do it, and if it fails you at least have the position to say: "At least I had the courage to try it." May sound illogical to some, but not to me - If you try, you can fail, but also succeed. If you don't, then you have already failed. ;)

Mike_76

08-05-2005, 09:04 PM

Sigurd

08-05-2005, 09:55 PM

I'm not sure what you're talking about Sigurd. Do you mean raising boars or trying to get the interview with the NYTs? I'd love to live on and run a farm, truly.

"Green acres is the place to be
farm living is the life for me
land spreading out so far and wide
keep Manhatten, just give me the countryside"

Does anyone know where this song comes from?

1)the Mead
2)the Boar

although I wouldn't mind it if the thing with the interview worked out,too. ;)
But no, I meant your comment on Mead brewing and Boar raising, on this one (not to confuse you even further... :p )

Mike_76

08-05-2005, 10:16 PM

Well, Sigurd, some days, confusing me is an very very easy task :)

But as far as the interview goes, I think I am going to give a short offering and have her tell me yes or no. If yes, that's great, if no, that's fine too, that means I will have disqualified her successfully. I just need to hear from Stave about one thing. I am sure that I will put up the letter before I actually send it.

Mike_76

08-12-2005, 12:08 AM

Still no word from S McN, although I sent another email. If I don't hear from him, I think this is pretty much the end of the road on this particular inquiry. Maybe he thought I was just kidding or it wasn't a serious effort. Well, this is FYI at this point.

pinlighter

08-12-2005, 07:17 AM

I guess so Mike.

At least we got the original retraction from them.

Mike_76

08-12-2005, 04:18 PM

Well, stop the presses, Pinlighter, I just got my response from Mr. McNallen.

One of the points I wanted to make to the NYTs was the number of Asatruists (Asatrauer?? sp????) currently practacing, instead of saying "one of the fastest growing religions in North America as I am guessing every Tom, ****, and Harry make those claims. A "fastest growing religion" could mean that they went from 2 to 4 people this year..a 200% rate of growth...wow!

In answer to this question:

My only question, really is: I read that Asatru is one of the largest
growing religions in Europe and North America. Can you put numbers to
that? As far as an estimate of practitioners, and perhaps the rate of
growth?

He (Steve said):

I've seen all sorts of estimates. The current number of practitioners
in the US is probably in excess of twenty thousand but that is hard to
verify. I have seen estimates of up to 80,000 but I think that is much
too high. I cannot accurately speculate on the growth rate. As a
percentage growth, it is probably respectable but in terms of absolute
numbers, of course, it is pretty small.

I'm not sure what I can do or what can be done with this as I write this.

Mike_76

08-12-2005, 04:21 PM

LOL, the anti-profanity filter screened out the short version of Richard:

as I am guessing every Tom, ****, and Harry make those claims.

I must be under a lot of stress, because I am having a huge chuckle over that :)

pinlighter

08-12-2005, 08:13 PM

Take care brother!!!! ;)

Katia

08-13-2005, 07:41 AM

LOL< that is funny Mike :D

Hengest

08-13-2005, 11:20 PM

I think I'll add Tom and Harry to the filter too! Don't want to discriminate against ****!

Mike_76

08-20-2005, 09:37 AM

Yes White Horse, Richard will get upset if you give special priviliges to Thomas and Harold.

Just a note to let everyone know I am alive, going through an epic financial struggle, which is not much fun. I haven't forgotten about the NYTs and wanted to say "hi" to everyone and I hope everyone is doing well.

pinlighter

08-20-2005, 12:02 PM

Thanks for staying in touch Mike. Keep us posted.

Teufelhunden

08-20-2005, 03:09 PM

Hey Mike trust me I know what that is like, this past year has been that way, hope it works out but do not let it get you down cause in the end it is only money. :)

Mike_76

08-23-2005, 07:00 AM

Yeah Thanks T, but it's a b***h when you really need it and don't have it isn't it? It's only money true, but sure comes in handy for buying things like food, shelter, etc.

Sigurd

10-02-2005, 11:13 AM

Anything new on that topic???

Mike_76

10-03-2005, 02:00 PM

Hello Sigurd

Nothing new, and that's my fault. I've been so busy with business things that just about everything else has been put on the backburner in my life.

Plus

When the "lights went out" for a bit, so to speak, here at Odinist-dot-com, I thought it was pretty much over.

However

I will not be able to get to it this week, as I am booked damn completely solid
but I am going to do it next week, or try to finish it up completely, then.

Hope you're doing well

Teufelhunden

10-03-2005, 02:31 PM

Hey Mike, did you ever get in touch with Steve Mcnallen?
just curious .

Mike_76

10-03-2005, 03:16 PM

Hey Mike, did you ever get in touch with Steve Mcnallen?
just curious .

Yes, I did, through email. Everything is pretty much up to the religious editor of the NYT's (I should say I think it is at this point - that's what I was told) and I have to get ahold of her.

Sigurd

10-03-2005, 04:02 PM

yep up the the religious EDITOR
and this likely being a christian it will be EDITED.
all i have to say :rolleyes:

Mike_76

10-03-2005, 04:10 PM

Well, I don't know about Christian, but I do know that the NYT's is a Jewish owned left wing or liberal newspaper.

Odinism and the NYT's should go together about as well as a panther and a polar bear, but we will see what happens.

Sigurd

10-03-2005, 04:31 PM

Jewish even :eek:
What will we do against Zionists :eek:

Mike_76

10-03-2005, 04:54 PM

Mike_76

10-13-2005, 05:01 PM

Congrats to Herrs Sigurd and Teufelhunden by the way, on your promotions to forum moderators.

just a quick note: I haven't forgotten about this, tomorrow or Saturday.

pinlighter

10-13-2005, 05:14 PM

Good to hear Mike . . . .

Mike_76

10-13-2005, 05:21 PM

Hello Pinlighter

My goal is a simple one:

1. Find the decision makers
2. Get either a "yes" or a "no"

Sigurd

10-14-2005, 07:46 AM

Yeah....

Sigurd, you might find this interesting.

The original auther of the original article that spawned this thread mentioned to me that she had gone out to dinner with Margot Adler and seemed to be chummy.

Margot Adler is this person:

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margot_Adler)

she is a correspondent for NPR, a left wingy radio thing I guess.

please note the last line:

Adler is a Wiccan priestess of Gardnerian Wicca.

Working with a Christian would be a step up. Unless, that is, you feel that Folkish Heathenism belongs under an "umbrella" organization including Druids, faries, wiccans and other "pagans" of various grotesque shapes and sizes - with people like Margot at the top, of course. I don't personally feel it should be "integrated," like they seem so desperate to do.

:eek: That...would...rule....out...any...possibility...o f...getting...a...proper...article.

That is like the people who say that Asatru is shamanic and so on, and that is what it will sound like. I guess you are actually better to get the Xian woman then... if she's liberal enough (yup one point where the liberals can be useful for...) then she'll probably get it done in the way we want.

Mike_76

10-14-2005, 07:38 PM

Ok. one letter send to Laurie Goodstein, religion editor of the New York Times.

I'm just finding out who is the decision maker(s) at this point.

I want to put together a short brief "offer" or description of Asatru, maybe a paragraph or two. I'm guessing, that since the NYT's is left leaning, two "features" or facts of Asatru that might be appealing to this type of audience are:

1.
more rights and a higher status for women (than Xtianity and other religions and cultures)

2.
and awareness and appreciation of the environment (not wanting to see the world turned into a parking lot and a strip mall)

I do think the Pro european part should be brought up at some point, as I'd like to get that on the table, to insure Steve does not get mangled, or that the NYT's does not get surprised - if that makes sense.

I really am taking my best guess as to what they might like or what would appeal to her and her readership. A better situation would be to have 50-100 newspapers to solicit to, the theory that, at any given time, a couple of them would want and need to do an interview of this sort. Unless you have a dud interview that no one would want.

You peel through a bunch of them quickly, and "disqualify" the "no's" quickly
so you can get to the "yes's" ASAP.

Plus a person can change the "offer" and offer it to the same newspapers after some time has passed. Plus, a person can test and improve the "offer" over time also, as it can take a round or two to get it just so.

But I'm not going to commit to that at this point. I'd rather not commit to something that I might end up not doing.

any feedback on my ideas above, as far as dealing with the NYTs would be appreciated - Pinlighter, Sigurd, Teuf, Hved, anyone?

Mike_76

10-14-2005, 07:51 PM

I thought of this later - Steve might not care if he gets mangled as long as he gets some interview time.

Mike_76

10-17-2005, 05:26 PM

No answer from Laurie today - will try to contact someone tomorrow.

pinlighter

10-18-2005, 04:13 AM

two "features" or facts of Asatru that might be appealing to this type of audience are:

1.
more rights and a higher status for women (than Xtianity and other religions and cultures)

2.
and awareness and appreciation of the environment (not wanting to see the world turned into a parking lot and a strip mall)

I think your analysis is sound. The problem will be the degree to which they sniff that "folkishness" is a vital part of our religion. I have no idea how to "spin" this (In any honest way) and we may get savaged.

Keep trying. Maybe we'll get there, maybe we won't. I admire your persistence.

.

Mike_76

10-18-2005, 08:39 AM

I think your analysis is sound. The problem will be the degree to which they sniff that "folkishness" is a vital part of our religion. I have no idea how to "spin" this (In any honest way) and we may get savaged.

Keep trying. Maybe we'll get there, maybe we won't. I admire your persistence.

.

I don't either, other than to just be honest if it comes to the surface, but I figure it's better to be straight with them, than to play games. I just want to get a yes or a no. I'm guessing they already know who Steve McNallen is, as he mentioned, I believe, that he got savaged over "The Kenniwick Man" by the NYT's.

Thanks for your feedback and support, Pinlighter :)

Mike_76

10-18-2005, 08:42 AM

::bang:: :kaioken: :yipee: :crash: :wave:
veering off topic for a sec - nice smilies - very cute!

pinlighter

10-18-2005, 08:48 AM

Nothing to do but keep plugging away, mate.

Mike_76

10-18-2005, 04:46 PM

I got Laurie's phone number and she is very busy (of course) and out of town for several weeks, covering the Dover, Pa. school board case (?) so it might be best to call her instead of emailing. I'm waiting for an answer to a question from Mr. McNallen, and that's about it for now. Cheers.

Mike_76

10-20-2005, 03:52 AM

I'm going to be "off site" for a couple of weeks, maybe longer - I'm going through an economic trial by fire - long story. It seems like it all hit the fan around the time when I discovered Odinism - and started to change. I started to change - or started to "be myself" - the latter is probably closer to the truth.

Anyway - I have to take care of this - difficult problem, and I'm going to try to contact, but cannot guarantee that I will contact, the NYT's in the meantime but just wanted everyone to know what's going on.

Feel free to send me an email as I always monitor that - and would always like to hear from anybody. For the next two - three weeks or so I am going to be a mono-maniac on a mission. I hope things work out.

Katia

10-20-2005, 07:09 AM

Best of luck with whatever it is you're going through Mike.. Be back soon!

pinlighter

10-20-2005, 08:20 AM

Good fortune Mike.

Mike_76

01-25-2006, 04:24 PM

I haven't forgotten about this, but I started online business ventures and also my mom was in the hospital and my father just passed away this last monday.

he was 85, and was blessed with a peaceful and painless death. Still, Ah..it's
a difficult week.

Sigurd

01-25-2006, 04:25 PM

My sympathies. :(

Mike_76

01-25-2006, 04:27 PM

Thanks Sigurd.

pinlighter

01-25-2006, 05:22 PM

Sorry to hear it Mike

Adalwolf

01-25-2006, 05:26 PM

Do you think it's too late to write a complaint to the editor and/or writer? I'd like to have my input.

Sigurd

01-25-2006, 05:33 PM

The complaint's been in, it's more about getting an article. For that is never to late. ;)

Mike_76

01-25-2006, 06:42 PM

It's really my fault that I haven't contacted the NYT's reporter, Adalwolf. FOr awhile I thought I was going to be homeless as I was unemployed and not making any income, and trying to get something going online was like banging my head against a wall...but I kept banging - just like a german, stubborn as a mule :) and then things started to break loose. Still not past the hump yet, but getting there. The internet is like the gold rush, the wild west, hong cong all at once - money flows to the free-est place. I've read the old Vikings were excellent traders.

Then, my Mom got very sick with the shingles which complicated everything, and went into the hospital right before thanksgiving, and then she got better and got sent home, and then my Dad's back started hurting him and then his lungs gave out - and then he just passed on - I was just talking to him, too. it's a little weird and hard to explain, it takes time I guess. He was a good man and I'm proud to be his son. I still can't believe I can't call and talk to him. I could always talk to my dad. Oddly, I am a bit pi**ed off at him for dying on me, right now. It's hard for me to believe.

But I will call her I just can't promise when for sure - it's in the front of my mind though - but this week is just shot.

hrolf

01-25-2006, 06:59 PM

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation, Mike. I am in a similar boat, but fortunately my parents are ok. I am working on getting myself a good job, one step at a time.

Adalwolf

01-25-2006, 07:17 PM

Yes, I am really sorry to hear that, Mike! I've lossed quite a few family members too, animals and humans alike, but thankfully neither of my parents.

Katia

01-25-2006, 07:27 PM

Awww Mike, don't worry about it. I applaud the efforts you have already made, and the race isn't over yet! I'm so sorry to hear about your dad.. may your hamingja give you strength during this difficult time.

Mike_76

01-25-2006, 10:26 PM

Wolfrik

02-28-2006, 04:03 PM

I figured I'd post this here rather than starting a new topic.

http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2006/02/27/news/local_news/news03.txt

The five Ohio inmates who brought the lawsuit belonged to nonmainstream faiths, including Asatru, that claims whites need to use violence to overcome other races.

The article itself is not about Asatru, but they just seemed to throw that little bit in there.

Sigurd

02-28-2006, 04:59 PM

Alright, that's it! Once I have handed in my essay in Legal Research and Writing, I am sending out two angry e-Mails.

One to the editor of this one, explaining that we are not a white supremacist religion.

One to the editor of the New York Times, to highlight to them the damage they have caused by giving that quote - for obviously using almost the same wording again is copying NYT; and that although the damage has been done, that in future they should be a little more careful, and maybe actually consult real heathens before they slander us, rather than just base their conception of us on some idiot who has probably only read "Creed of Iron" and "Vargsmål", an doesn't know who Audhumla is! :mad:

pinlighter

02-28-2006, 06:35 PM

Thanks Sigurd, Pinlighter, Hrolf, and Adalwolf for your well wishes

Katia, what is hamingja? I do know I feel stronger and more clear headed ever since I found my heathen path, about a year ago. But then I felt caged in a way I could no longer bear.

Hope you are well, Mike, and your family is recovering from these things. Be strong brother. we are thinking of you.

Katia

02-28-2006, 06:54 PM

Thanks Sigurd, Pinlighter, Hrolf, and Adalwolf for your well wishes

Katia, what is hamingja? I do know I feel stronger and more clear headed ever since I found my heathen path, about a year ago. But then I felt caged in a way I could no longer bear.

Mike.. I'm sorry I didn't notice your post until now! A hamingja is your female "entity" assigned to you at birth to guide you through life. Alot of folk believe this would be one of your female ancestors.

pinlighter

02-28-2006, 06:57 PM

I note Mike hasn't been around for 4 weeks - just hope he's OK.

Wolfrik

02-28-2006, 08:58 PM

I got this email, and I read on another list that a few people got this email as well.

Several followers of Asatru contacted me today in reference to an
article I wrote about an Islamic sensitivity training organized in response
to a local county jail inmate preparing lititgation over access to an
imam. I replicated a mistake made by The New York Times in June 2005
that included a description of Asatru based on a legal filing from
the-then Ohio attorney general in a U.S. Supreme Court case. As the Times
did, we are correcting the incorrect statement.

I know that an apology will not make up for the way that your faith was
maligned in this newspaper, but I hope that you will accept that I made
the mistake in all honesty and I did not write the sentence out of an
intention to make Asatru appear negatively.

Unlike other newspapers, our corrections do not run on the inside
pages, but run on the front page. The correction will read:
"An article published Monday about Islamic sensitivity training at the
Cayuga County Jail included an incorrect explanation of the Asatru
religion. A brief from the Ohio attorney general in a U.S Supreme Court
case referenced in the article said Ohio inmates belonging to Asatru
believe whites must use violence to defeat other races. Other believers in
Asatru say the religion is a peaceful one but that the symbols of the
faith have been co-opted by white supremacists."

Again, you have my apologies.

Regards,
Amaris Elliott-Engel

Staff writer
The Citizen
25 Dill St.
Auburn, NY 13021
(315) 253-5311 x282
(315) 253-6031 (fax)
amaris.elliot-engel@lee.net

Sigurd

02-28-2006, 09:01 PM

That sounds a bit better. Guess my angry e-Mail becomes unnecessary then, too. (For uniwork reasons, I could have only written to them tomorrow.) :)

Adalwolf

02-28-2006, 11:47 PM

At least we got an apology :)

Speaking of apology, did we ever get one from the NY Times?

Schwarzesonne

03-01-2006, 05:04 AM

At least we got an apology :)

Speaking of apology, did we ever get one from the NY Times?

Yes, we did.

Mike_76

03-01-2006, 08:27 AM

I'm ok - still alive and kicking - I gotta run some tax forms over to my dear old mum.

I read that article, it said:

The five Ohio inmates who brought the lawsuit belonged to nonmainstream faiths, including Asatru, that claims whites need to use violence to overcome other races.

Hmm - I must have missed the super duper double secret "R*a*h*o*w*a*! Destroy the mud races!" Odinist meetings, no one clued me in on that part. I was probably at one of my KKK meetings. No, wait - my KKK meetings are on Tuesday, so I must have been at my Neo Nazi Texas Hold 'em Poker pajama sleepover - "Sieg Hiel!" Yeah, that's got to be it. I think I look quite impressive in my robe with swastika emblazoned all over it. As everyone knows, white supremacists. such as myself, who want to overcome other races with violence. are really latent homosexuals, so I can't go into what happens late at night *giggling* as it's not that kind of forum.

Yikes. I'm being sarcastic, of course. Please don't take ^ that seriously, although I doubt anyone would. I'd be curious to know where these reporters get their information. What "expert" feed them this? Asatru must be considered "hate" or, *gasp* racist, by these reporter types, as it's pro european.

Brand

03-01-2006, 09:09 AM

Their info came from the same place that the Times got theirs:The Ohio Attorney General. When the case went to the Supreme Court Ohio lost!

The Department of Rehabilitation and Correction here consistently refused to accomodate nonmainstream religions. For a number of years DR&C has been promoting "faith based" programs in their prisons. When they say "faith based' they really mean xtian. It was counter to their political agenda to recognize any alternative religions,so they needed to establish security concerns if they did so.

Thankfully,the Supreme Court wasn't buying it!

pinlighter

03-01-2006, 09:36 AM

I'm ok - still alive and kicking - I gotta run some tax forms over to my dear old mum.

Good to hear it. :cool: 'scuse me for panicing.

Mike_76

03-01-2006, 10:07 AM

Thanks for thinking of me, Pinlighter :)

I'm trying to iron out the final wrinkle in a job position that I think would be good for me. It's been - an interesting = year so far. Sorry for veering off topic, a bit

Alaric

03-01-2006, 11:57 PM

Modern media is poison.

Somerled

03-30-2006, 02:55 PM

Neo Nazi Texas Hold 'em Poker pajama sleepover...

Our hearth has a new activity! :thumbup:

Mike_76

04-08-2006, 09:17 PM

Sorry for the very long delay about contacting the New York Times Religion Department. After a grind of a transitional period, my financial situation is improving, and I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope it's the Sun, and not a train coming. No. I don't think so, I can feel the change deep in my bones.

I was worried about becoming destitute, so I had to put the NYT's on the back burner. But I haven't forgotten about it, and hopefully can follow through relatively soon - within the next couple of months, conservatively. I am sorry for the delays. Hope all is well with everyone.

pinlighter

04-09-2006, 02:57 AM

Hope all is well with you Mike. You shouldn't worry too much about pursuing this article at this distance in time - make sure you and your family are well first.

Mike_76

06-04-2006, 10:31 AM

I'm back, to do this thing with the NYT's. How is everybody?

Mike_76

06-04-2006, 10:40 AM

it's quiet in here. Shhhhhh.

Mike_76

06-04-2006, 10:42 AM

Random thoughts: I'm tired of my avator and sig pick. I need new socks and shoes. I'm hungry and think I'll go eat, and then get a new mouse for my computer. The movie "The Oklahoma Kid" is one of the dumber things I've seen - James Cagney as a cowboy - :shake: - but I liked one quote.

Outdoorsman

06-04-2006, 12:17 PM

The movie "The Oklahoma Kid" is one of the dumber things I've seen - James Cagney as a cowboy - :shake: - but I liked one quote.

And that quote is...? :D

Mike_76

06-04-2006, 01:42 PM

Outdoorsman said: And that quote is.. :D ?

It's in my signature, look down past the ravens.

Mike_76

06-16-2006, 09:26 AM

OK. It's on my short list to call Steve McNallen, and then try to set up an interview with the New York Times. I had an idea this morning, in the shower:

If I can't get the NYT's to Interview Steve, why not interview him myself? I am planning on getting a digital recorder anyway, so I could do it over the phone.
Then I could post it here. It would be an Odinist.com exclusive, and original content. If it's a good interview, he could post it on his site or use it also.

Note to Mods: I need your help. I posted my email address in this thread (I can find the exact posts). I keep getting SPAM, and I think that robots or spiders on the internet are picking it up. Can I get a mod to edit out my email address in these posts?

pinlighter

06-16-2006, 12:19 PM

Hi Mike. Sorry I missed you when you popped up here last week: I think I was at the OR folk camp in the UK.

Yes, why not interview Steve? :)

If you can get a decent recording post it as an audio file (anywhere able to host it???) Or transcribe . . . . .

Better PM the mods to get your email removed, they sometimes neglect to read every single post on the board, the recreants . . . I think it's #96 #93 #57 and #53

Mike_76

06-16-2006, 03:02 PM

An OR folk camp sounds like a lot of fun, Pinlighter. I bet it's great getting away with just folk and enjoying yourself, without all the stress of - "diversity" - for lack of a better word. I wish I had a face to face organziation around here like that.

I'm getting ready to go camping - I need to get away by myself and work something out in my mind. I'm sure I'll pick this up when I get back

Hope you have a good weekend :-)

pinlighter

06-17-2006, 11:30 AM

Hope you have a good weekend :-)

And you mate.

Mike_76

06-21-2006, 09:22 PM

some more delays - eh. I'm planning on getting back to this ASAP. It's funny, when I'm upset or cussing, I still say "Jesus Christ!" or more like "JeZUZ KeerIIIIST!!." I might always do that. I don't think it really matters.

Robert/Odin321

02-01-2010, 10:36 AM

I am a member on the law suite ,here in Ohio and the lawyers last names are cook,goldberg,out of ohio state university.they took the case on and they were free,but inside Odinists had to be on this case just to be even allowed to were the hammer and to have an Edda.The state is doing everything in there power to label any and evryone who claim ASATRU.Almost every month for six of the seven years i did random cell searches and sezure of litrature would be done,I have all of the Kites,and informal complaints to this day just in case it may help as evidence,it sucks to get video recoded on the yard and to have to take pictures for there so called S.T.G. files.Been home since july 19 of 2008 im not going back to such a shit hole where the majority are afraid to hold there heads up high.I salute all those brothers and sisters behind the wire VOR TRU for life.Hold your heads high bless.Robert Primel...