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Lee
05-26-2005, 04:02 PM
Greetings to all on the board.

My first post on the board so a little introduction and a bit of background information about myself. I am a 37 year old male living in Wocestershire, England. I am a history graduate and when called upon, write books for an American company specializing in history books for the mid-school market. I am currently in the process of writing an independent book with my wife on Penda, the Heathen king of Mercia.

The question I would like to ask concerns the nature of the Gods themselves and how Odinists perceive them. I am relatively new to the world of Odinism, I am still doing initial research to see the ins and outs of the religion but it resonates with my strongly. So that my question can be put into context, I’d like to address what Odinism means to me.

My personal viewpoint is that Odinism is part of who I am, it is my ancestoral and cultural religion and the Aesir, Vanir and the Giants represent not only universal truths concernting the nature of man and indeed of nature itself but Odinism is a representation of the Northern European mindset. I wholeheartedly agree with the Folkish view of Odinism. There is nothing more false, hideous and embarressing than a white middle-class European surrounding himself with dream-catchers and other emblams of the Native American culture, for example. They have no ties to this religion and I find it insulting that they disrespect the indigenous culture and religion of a definite folk for their own ends.

I feel pasionatly about English culture and I feel that it needs to be preserved. I do not, of course, mean English culture as it is now, the land of the chav and the political correctness that is killing the country. I mean the real culture, that of the Anglo-Saxon, and indeed the Dane, and to me Odinism and the Gods are a natural part of this culture. Christianity is an alien import that has no part in the mindset, history or culture of the indigenous people of this land and Odinism is the way for those who are so intuned to discover who they are and to get back to the natural ways of our folk.

As I said, that is my personal take on things. Ok, that was the polemic, now on to the question! I have been looking at the posts on this board for some time and it seems that it is associated with the Odinic Rite. I went to the OR website and read an essay in the “Deities” section called “The Aesir: Essential Information.” The part in that essay that I would like to address is the following:

“Another attitude that is to found in too many Odinists almost amounts to atheism. These persons also, mostly dedicated to the welfare of our people, are too closely tied in to the materialistic outlook of the age. They speak of the gods as abstractions, personifications of moral attitude, archetypes in the Jungian sense, seen as mere projections in their own minds.”

To me, this is what the gods are. I am certainly not tied into materialism but, as I said in my words above, I do feel that the Gods to me are an archetype of who I am. So after much ado, my question is this:

Based on my post, would you consider me to be an “Odinist”?

I hope I have made myself clear in my post. Should any further clarification be needed I’d be more than happy to give it.

Hengest
05-26-2005, 04:21 PM
This site has nothing to do with the OR.

Lee
05-26-2005, 04:27 PM
Ah. I just presumed that as people like yourself, and the other moderators, were obviously OR members that the board was OR affiliated, however tenuously.

Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson
05-26-2005, 04:35 PM
Ah. I just presumed that as people like yourself, and the other moderators, were obviously OR members that the board was OR affiliated, however tenuously.
While a lot of the forum staff are Odinic Rite members, this website is in no way shape or form affiliated with the Odinic Rite besides having a forum staff who are members and other posters who might be members. We support the OR and what they are doing of course and being an OR member myself I love to promote the OR to folk who are new to Odinism but again this is not an Odinic Rite message board. This board is owned by IrishJay and somewhat "co owned" by me.

Lee
05-26-2005, 04:39 PM
I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Hengest
05-26-2005, 04:42 PM
The article you refer to is written by the Circle of Ostara. That is their view and not necessarily that of the OR leadership or members..

If that is the way in which you view the Gods then nobody is going to tell you that is wrong, at least nobody in the OR. Everybody acccesses the High Ones in their own way and should be encouraged to explore other possibilities but not condemned for they way they are comfortable with.

Also, we are all at different levels of awareness and depth and this is bound to cause differences in our views.

The people responsible for those articles have been Odinists for more than 30 years and are accomplished in all kinds of runework, meditation and shamanic techniques and their views stem from their experiences. Perhaps in time yours may change or they may not but that certainly does not preclude you from being an Odinist

Welcome to the forum anyway. I hope you enjoy it here.

Lee
05-26-2005, 04:51 PM
Thank you for your reply. I did see the disclaimer at the start of that article that the views were the authors own. I just wanted to see if that was the general concensus in the Odinist community as to Odinists' perceptions of their Gods.

pinlighter
05-26-2005, 04:59 PM
Welcome Penda.

Just to clear the air, I'm an OR member too, but of course post here as a private individual.



I think I would say that I believe the gods definitely can be at their least understood in the way you describe - as Jungian Archetypes, sociobiological evolved "behavioural modules", or collective human ideals.

However they are also more - these things are, if you like, shadows cast on reality by something higher.


So, I'm very much in your camp. I can approach the idea of the gods through various non-supernatural constructs.

But I am not reductive. Because it's shown in X I don't say it's "only" X.



Visionaries strive to see a higher reality, and maybe they sometimes fool themselves, but maybe some times they do see things scientists do not.
.

Lee
05-26-2005, 05:33 PM
Hi there Pinlighter,

Again, the following is simply how I see the Gods. I do feel that archetypes are just as “real” as supernatural beings if you believe them so. If you’re intelligent enough to take on board the concept of archetypes then you’re savvy enough to work out for yourself what said archetypes mean to you and what relation they have to your personality. If you are a Northern European, and have Odinic archetypes, then this must say something about your personality and your view on life.

So the Northern Gods are a reflection of who you are and what your values are in life. You can anthropomorphize them and put human personalities and foibles on them to further explore what they mean to you personally.

pinlighter
05-26-2005, 06:41 PM
Well, I'm a follower of Sociobiology: I believe our minds are strongly shaped by our evolution, by complex and sophisticated inbuilt behavioural routines, which are genetically programmed and which to a certain degree vary between human groups.

Now, the key thing here is that the complexity and sophistication are inbuilt and inherited, even limiting myself for the sake of argument to this 100% scientific non-mystical view.


To me right now your expressed analysis seems to be a little too much - take it or leave it???

I want to emphasise that we don't make these things up. From a certain POV, they ride us and we are just masks for them. And this is true even if we are talking about genetically coded patterns.

Lee
05-26-2005, 07:04 PM
I agree with you so I probably haven't made myself clear! :)

The archetypes within in me are part of my make up, genetic and otherwise. I think it is important to express these "images" in the forms that have been passed down to us and make us who we are as a folk, and the natural way for Northern folk to put these archetypes in a real form is Odinism.

For me anyway, it's definitely not take it or leave it. You can leave it if you like, but those who do are only fooling themselves!

Schwarzesonne
05-26-2005, 07:31 PM
I, for one, do not believe that the götter are mere psychological constructs (archetypes).

There are many theories re their nature. Some say that they are manifestations of natural phenomena. I believe this to be true. Other believe that the götter are real, sentient beings with their own unique personalities just like people. I believe this to be true as well. Some say that the götter are symbols of ‘higher realities’ (for lack of a better term). I think that this is true as well. They are many things—this is what makes each a gôt! But they are not just something in my head or manifestations of the collective unconscious. They are far more than that!

Do you believe in Mother Earth (Erda); do you hear the thunder (Donar); are you ever truly inspired (Wuotan); have you experienced self-sacrifice (Ziu); been torn between sensual lust and proper loyalty/place (Frô)? Do you appreciate the wealth of the sea (Nirdu) or the grain of the land (Sibba), or even a good, quality drink now and again (Eger)?

The götter ARE real, and one would be hard pressed to walk 50 paces and miss one of their gifts! Most of us are just to blind, deaf and ignorant to realize the glory that is around us all the time. :eek:

pinlighter
05-27-2005, 09:14 AM
That sounds pretty good to me Penda.


I won't claim I'm 100% happy with my analysis. But I'm sure of that much, and beyind that I am not sure. Like I said this is a reductive, minimalist, view that may be only one side of the truth.