Odinist Organizations

[Spiderhouse]

What is the difference, if any, between Odinist organizations? Is it merely geography, or are there ideological differences as well? How does a beginner go about choosing the best organization for them, or is it even necessary? The three main ones I am referring to are:

The Odinic Rite
The Asatru Alliance
The Asatru Folk Assembly

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[valaskjalf]

You don't HAVE to belong to any group, Because those groups do have there own opinion on Odinism, Go by your own for the start, If you do decide to join up, Choose one that best suits your opinion on Asatru.

[Sigurd]

The OR for itself has members will all different kinds of opinions, BTW, valaskjalf.

But, I agree as far as that wait for a "right time" to choose the "right one". Choose the one which you feel right to join.

They also have Web-sites running. (which I believe should be linked in the Links section of this forum ?) From their you can gain info, articles, etc.

I, for myself, felt that out of all, the OR was best to join. For my needs, that is. ;)

[Liffrea]

The AA and AFA are strongest in North America. The OR has its greatest presence in England. All are Folkist. I have not studied the AA or AFA much so I can't really tell you if there are any ideological differences.

Basically I echo the advice already given. Form your own opinions and once you have a clear idea of what you believe then you can join an organisation if you wish. It's not compulsary. I chose the OR becuase I believe in what it stands for and what it's goals are. Good Luck. :)

[solar_nexus]

There seems to be very little difference, but I *think* these are the differences (correct me if I am wrong)

One of the things that I noticed in the Odinic Rite is that they seem anti-anachronistic. Very few of the members seem to be interested in garb or anything of that nature, they are more about the core essense, I think. This is actually something that I like about the Odinic Rite. Their design seems to be similar to a corperation, making use of titles such as President, Directer, ect.
The seem to be "in the now"

My experiences with the Asatru Alliance was positive. I was actually a member of a Kindred in North Carolina but I ended up moving back to Illinois ( I was in the Army). The gothi was a member of the SCA. The Asatru Alliance videos also feature everyone wearing garb. Not really my thing, but at the same time I was never forced to wear any garb. The structure of it seems to be based on the government system of pre-Christian Iceland.
They seem to be "in the past"

The AFA is a "futuristic" organisation. Not suprising because Stephen McNallen
has strong interests in "weird science" an space exploration. He even has a guild dedicated to the exploration of weird science and space exploration. He even speaks of "our great grand children mining asteroids" and is very much a "tekkie" (one who is into technology).

These are all good organisations. In fact, I remember when I got the book "Asatru Rituals" by Stephen McNallen. The text is a bit flawed and outdated (and Stephen would completely admit that and already has), but I will still read it as a way to recapture the enthusiasm from when I was younger.


What is the difference, if any, between Odinist organizations? Is it merely geography, or are there ideological differences as well? How does a beginner go about choosing the best organization for them, or is it even necessary? The three main ones I am referring to are:

The Odinic Rite
The Asatru Alliance
The Asatru Folk Assembly

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[pinlighter]

Stephen McNallen has strong interests in "weird science" an space exploration. He even has a guild dedicated to the exploration of weird science and space exploration. He even speaks of "our great grand children mining asteroids" and is very much a "tekkie" (one who is into technology).



Now, what's wierd about that??? :D

.

[solar_nexus]

What all of these organisations lack (and the Asatru Movement in general) is a
Vanic element. There needs to be a solid study in beleifs of the Greater Folk (rather than just the Eddas and the Sagas), which can be found in Folklore.
This would comprise of:

1. A solid study of the *lesser wights*, this would include the nixes, kobolds, fossergrim, elves, dwarves, trows, hobs, scucca, redcaps, leapers, knockers, brownies, huldre folk, unholden, spectres, wraiths, phantoms, revenants, drauger, werewolves, the black annis, ect.

2. A solid study of folk sorcery, or authentic witchcraft, ie drycraft, fith-fath, sitting out, wortcunning, leechcraft, faring forth, ect.

3. A solid study of the Wanes and good Giants (ie Frey, Freya, Niord, Skathi, Sun, Moon, Earth, Day, Night, Aegir, and Ran).

4. A good examination of the "fairy tales" and their meanings.

All of this should be consolidated into one book. It should be accurate to the lore with a good deal of synthesis sparked with inspiration, ie attractive writing skills and nice pictures is always a plus.

This, I think, may be the "philosophers egg" that will turn the Lead which is the Wiccan Movement into an authentic Folkway which is the Gold.

[solar_nexus]

Nothing at all. That is actually the name of the link that Steve put up in his website: "weird science" and is the very name of the website itself. "Weird science" delves into the controversal and experimental aspects of science, like electro-magnetic hover crafts, theories surrounding genetic memory, cloning, chimeras, and all sorts of neat and interesting stuff that our kindred dwarves like tinkering with.


Now, what's wierd about that??? :D

.

[pinlighter]

Can you give me that link, solar_nexus?

Excuse me for replying in a light mode, I don't mean to mock. I have often pointed out that all the people who historically followed Odinic religions were as pro-technological as they could possibly be. This seems obvious.

As for wierd, all science is more or less a revealing of the astonishing.

[solar_nexus]

There you go.......

http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird.html

Pretty cool stuff to say the least!

[Fjorn]

Agreed Andy,

I myself am with the OR. I didn't just join willy nilly, I researched all organisations and their are MANY more than just the three listed. The AA you cannot join as an individual member, only kindreds. The AFA are good and I respect McNallen and you can now join as an individual. However, I joined the OR because, and as I found out when I joined and met the members and 'leaders', is the structure which is set solid. The OR takes things slow, to get things right, never rushing into anything. Their is a leadership but they never see themselves as almighty like others do. The are one big family that really do look after their members and treat everyone all as equals. I have never looked back since I joined the OR and that Is why I am so pleased to offer my help with things ot help them.

Each organisation how it's own brand of Odinism but you're not told what to believe. Infact, you don't have to be a member of ANY organisation but the material that comes out of the OR is the best in my opinion. I, in fact, don't follow a 'brand' of an organisations Odinism. For an example, I am Armanen and use the Armanen Futharkh, whereas the OR uses the Elder Futharkh but nothing stops their members from using different rune rows, personal beliefs etc and you can infact write articles for OR Briefing to start debate and discussion. I am the only one within the OR (that I know of) that utilises the Sidereal Pendulum (http://geocities.com/odinistlibrary/OLArticles/Articles/siderealpendelastrol.htm) but that is because I have never queried it with others. In my eyes the OR are leading the way as they have done since the early 70's. Even the Book of Blotar (http://www.odinist.com/othala/showthread.php?t=1130) was a pioneering work that all other organisations worked from and developed on.

Even prison outreach, the OR are leading the way becasue of their structure and taking time to achieve goals rather than jumping in with both feet and actually not achieving a thing. I am involved with Prison Outreach with the OR and I can tell you that it is the best in this field with a separate department just for this.

For a brief overview of the Odinic Rite, please check out the free online interview with Heimgest, DCG-OR found here: http://www.********rite.org/OR%20Media.htm NAD OTHER INTERVIEWS WITH HIM HERE: http://geocities.com/odinistlibrary/OLArticles/Interviews.htm

The 9NV and NC (http://geocities.com/odinistlibrary/OLArticles/Articles/9charges9virtues.htm) are a prime example of the OR's work all those years ago they everyone else now highly respects. For an example, something which is respected is the ORB Online News found here: http://********rite.org/News/newsarchive.htm of which I now have the highly appreciated job of keeping up to date.

At the end of the day, take some time out, contact these organisations, build up the information for yourself, check out their websites and take some time to decide for yourself. Even then their is no need to actually join any organisation.

[freya3]

Thank you for posting what you did solar nexus! Being new to Odinism(2 months now), I have been reading the Eddas and Havamal, and that has helped, but I agree w/you there needs to be some sort of consolidation of the information...

It is taking me a long time to go through this info! It is great and OR is more my style, but being in the US, it is a lot harder to find a kindred close by that is like-minded :(

[Teufelhunden]

Hello Freya :)
I am a member of the Asatru Folk Assembly, and know Steve Mcnallen wuite well now as we correspond and have met in person on a few occasions.
I came to respect the OR and its members, as I consider the mambers I know as friends, but geography was problem and I was a solitary and isolated. I had corresponded with Steve over time and then was invited to their Winter nights gathering where my wife and I attended in Mendocino Ca. I went there with no preconcieved ideas of its members or leaders. We arrived and after 3 days came away with many things, I was impressed with the sompilation of brains that was in attendance, and the Folk. I felt very at home and welcome with them and was very impressed as I had a conversation with Steve about what he considerd the mistakes he and the AFA had made in the past, as to his words "Shooting myself in the foot" in past with other Orgs. It was by the time that I left that my wife and I had decided that this is what we wanted to be apart of. It is all a matter of where you call home, and although a member of the AFA I hold the OR members I know {and even the 2 poeple attending WN that were Or members} in very high regard. The AA I am not as savy on, but in my opinion you can not go wrong with either AFA, OR.
That all being said, I was solitary for many years and read, experienced and thought about our faith, and it was time for me to come out of solitude and be with my Folk, abd be apart of it. Read and find these awnsers within your self and when the time is right you will see if an Org is for you, you may decide to stay on your own, as it stands right now I am not a member of any kindred, but have been "adopted" into the Calasa kindered by Steve and his gracious wife.
hope it helped :)
Teufelhunden

[Schwarzesonne]

When I first came to Heathenry I immediately joined the Ring of Troth (now under different leadership and simply called “The Troth”) because they were the only organization I knew about. That was a mistake. Now I’m not going to use this forum to badmouth the RoT or anyone else—just suffice it to say that I should have taken my time and looked around a bit more before just jumping into any particular organization. What they had to offer really wasn’t the thing for me. I left them after about 2 years, and “flew solo” for many years after that.

I am now a proud member of the Irminen-Gesellschaft. If you’re interested in looking into the IG you can click on the link in my signature. As much as I am involved with the IG, however, there are many other groups that I highly respect, especially the Odinic Rite and the Asatru Alliance.

My advice is to take your time. If you really feel a need (for whatever reason) to affiliate with a large organization read about the group; try to contact members to get a ‘feel’ for the calibre of folks involved (as opposed to the rhetoric); read articles written by the members in their magazines or on their websites. And when you’re on an open forum such as this one, try to remember who is affiliated with whom so that you can get a bit of a feel for the group’s constituency that way as well. In time it will all seem crystal clear!

[Lonnie]

What all of these organisations lack (and the Asatru Movement in general) is a
Vanic element. There needs to be a solid study in beleifs of the Greater Folk (rather than just the Eddas and the Sagas), which can be found in Folklore.
This would comprise of:

1. A solid study of the *lesser wights*, this would include the nixes, kobolds, fossergrim, elves, dwarves, trows, hobs, scucca, redcaps, leapers, knockers, brownies, huldre folk, unholden, spectres, wraiths, phantoms, revenants, drauger, werewolves, the black annis, ect.

2. A solid study of folk sorcery, or authentic witchcraft, ie drycraft, fith-fath, sitting out, wortcunning, leechcraft, faring forth, ect.

3. A solid study of the Wanes and good Giants (ie Frey, Freya, Niord, Skathi, Sun, Moon, Earth, Day, Night, Aegir, and Ran).

4. A good examination of the "fairy tales" and their meanings.

All of this should be consolidated into one book. It should be accurate to the lore with a good deal of synthesis sparked with inspiration, ie attractive writing skills and nice pictures is always a plus.



hehe, with the exception of the last part of your post it sounds like you need to take a look at Irminenschaft or Theodism... Both offer most of what you mention above... ;)

[Lonnie]

I couldn't agree with Steve more... When I first entered Heathenry it was through the only group I knew about at the time. Boy would I have been better off searching around on my own for awhile first... After that initial group, I started doing alot of research on groups. I spent time online with members of those groups and met as many folk as I could to gage the various elements in Heathenry... I wound up going through Theodism to get to Irminism, and couldn't be happier with my choice... The following is a quote on my website that I wish I had seen and followed long ago...
"Word of warning: Don't rush into kindred or tribe building until you know each other like best friends. Too many people have damaged reputations over hasty mistakes."

[aud_friggsdottir]

"Word of warning: Don't rush into kindred or tribe building until you know each other like best friends. Too many people have damaged reputations over hasty mistakes."

I couldn't agree more with this statement... We have a thriving community here, but it is with Folks that I have known for years and consider Family! All the growth was a natural process...which is what it should be, slow and steady! Now Darryl and I did alot "on our own" for a long time...knowing that we were building a foundation that would eventually "someday" be something grand. We still are! It is a continual process.

Now, we searched around alot before settling on the OR. And now 6 (?) years later, we are THRILLED with our choice and pour our heart and soul into it.

FFF
Kathy

[Torquil]

Now, we searched around alot before settling on the OR. And now 6 (?) years later, we are THRILLED with our choice and pour our heart and soul into it.

I'm not a member of any organization right now, but I'm coming to that same conclusion. The OR seems to know its stuff. I read through the "Book of Blotar" I received a few days ago and was very impressed.

[freya3]

Thanks for the advice Schwarzesonne and Teufelhundon! We are definitely going to take our time finding a kindred. I have actually gotten a lot out of looking online and I love listening to the Odin Lives broadcast. The talks that Steve Mcnallen gives as well as the others are so inspiring and have helped me to understand the true roots of the Asatru/Odinic faith.

I also think Kathy is right too in finding the Family to grow with. That is what is most important to me. And, right now, I feel that I have a lot to learn myself before I could really be as productive a member as I want to be. I am figuring out what I want and what I don't want. Until then, though, I am happy talking to and learning from you all :)

Carla

[Zelda]

I would echo the previous posts about taking your time checking out various organizations. If you can attend any gatherings of an organization in person, you will get a much better sense of what they are about, also, I've found. That is, if you want to actively join one. I live far from any of the kindreds or organizations but have attended some gatherings and met with folks in person one on one. There are things to learn from all of them and I think you will find what feels right to you. One thing to be aware of (wary of?) is that sometimes, in the U.S. at least, folks come from Christian backgrounds and they tend to start to apply those cultural norms/rituals to a group without even realizing it. Also be wary of "leaders" who wish to pursue self-aggrandisement (sp?). Be clear on what you want the organization to "be" for you. To gain knowledge? To socialize? To promote Odinism through outreach? To form a long-term self-sustaining community? To be political?If you become clear on your beliefs about those things, then you will choose wisely and not be pulled this way and that. Hope this helps. Zelda

[Don vonMilikowski]

Research....

I will not say anything good or bad about the Asatru Alliance or Asatru Folk Assembly. Not polite to do so. they have their strong and good points, but flaws as well. I found that I am happiest on my own, doing my thing, living my life.

I am Brian's man (once again too funny), even he will tell you I am the most inactive and far one, because I like my hermitude (new word, feel free to use it, will submit to Oxford's English Dictionary).

Because I have an inability to get along with people online, I normally stay away from forums. I think this is the only one I have not singled out someone and picked them to tears, so someone is doing something right.

[ensonulv]

After poking around on the web I decided to dig deeper into the OR. Fortunately I found a nice couple and people associated with them, and not some fluffy D&D turds.

[Fenris]

A long, long time ago I almost got involved with a group led by one Martin Wulfgar back in north-western England, though eventually I decided to fly solo for a while. Another friend of mine - he was much older, had a lot more experience - said at the time there was a problem within the Odinic Rite, which led to a schism. Whether true or not, I've heard since then that there was indeed some form of split though . It made me think twice about involving myself with a group at all, much to my detriment, so I never did join up with Martins kindred, and lost touch with him and a great many other people.

Some eleven years later I feel I've settled and I feel I've matured enough that it would be in my best interests to find others of like mind, and help found a kindred/tribe/other, both to help myself, and help others. I'll have to wait until I have a reliable source of income before dedicating myself to anything at the moment though, as being in the midst of the immigration process in the USA, I'm broke and currently unable by law to work, yet at the same time unable to receive financial assistance. What a retarded state of affairs, let me tell you.

Anyway, I'd caution against leaping in feet-first, much as others have. Do your homework, discourse with members of the groups you're interested in, feel it out, see if it resonates with your folkish soul and if so, only after giving it a great deal of thought would I advise pledging an oath to a group - for your sake, and theirs. It's not something that should be entered into lightly.

[Hengest]

Fenris, just to clear up your comment. There was indeed a split when a few degenerates were given the boot. They tried to set up another OR using the P.O box BCM Edda rather than our BCM Runic.

Having failed to get that off the gound they contacted Else Christiansen asking if they could set up an Odinist Fellowship in the UK. Knowing of their chracter she refused and they proved her judgement right by setting it up anyway. That is what they go by now but are nothing more than a web page.

Pleased to say that Wulfgar is still with us and I saw him at the GM last month. Nice guy.

[aud_friggsdottir]

After poking around on the web I decided to dig deeper into the OR. Fortunately I found a nice couple and people associated with them, and not some fluffy D&D turds.

Why...thank you :)...I will take that as a wonderful compliment!

FFF
Kathy
Not some fluffy D&D Turd!
(Sorry struck me as funny)

[Teufelhunden]

The OR is indeed a very fine Org, and its members are upstanding. You have made a good choice, make use of the knowledge they have to offer, and the guidance of its membership. :)
Teufelhunden



LOL "fluffy turd" ....

[aud_friggsdottir]

I'll have to wait until I have a reliable source of income before dedicating myself to anything at the moment though, as being in the midst of the immigration process in the USA, I'm broke and currently unable by law to work, yet at the same time unable to receive financial assistance. What a retarded state of affairs, let me tell you.



ARG...I have many Canadian friends that have had this same complaint... I hope things work out for you.

FFF
Kathy

[Teufelhunden]

Fenris,
I welcome you to our nation and applaud you for going through the process of immigration, unlike our neighbors to the south that seem to spit all over our laws and processes.
Again welcome and I hope you prosper and follow the American dream.

Where about are you situated? let me know and I will pull some resources to see if I can not help you job wise.
Teufelhunden

[Brand]

Another hearty welcome here!
I agree with what has already been said:take your time!
I am an AFA member,but it was a tough choice between the AFA and OR.
I am in the unfortunate position of being in an area with NO discernible Heathens. For the time being the internet is the only resource available for association with other Folk. I like to think that I am contributing something by being a member of a good organization.

[Odinskind]

Thank you for posting what you did solar nexus! Being new to Odinism(2 months now), I have been reading the Eddas and Havamal, and that has helped, but I agree w/you there needs to be some sort of consolidation of the information...

It is taking me a long time to go through this info! It is great and OR is more my style, but being in the US, it is a lot harder to find a kindred close by that is like-minded :(
If you find one please let me know. :wave:

[Lonnie]

If you find one please let me know. :wave:


Your in KY, you may want to get ahold of Beowulf on this forum. He is a member of a Kindred that includes members from KY and northern TN... Sometimes you have to travel alittle to find a good group... ;)

[wesley]

Interesting thing. I'm a member of the OR for my reasons, and my wife is a member of the AFA for her reasons. So I can view the best of both. I think they are both great organizations with alot to offer the heathen communities at large. But as always take your time, do your homework, and find out what fits you best.

FFF
Wes-AOR

[Schwarzesonne]

Interesting thing. I'm a member of the OR for my reasons, and my wife is a member of the AFA for her reasons. So I can view the best of both. I think they are both great organizations with alot to offer the heathen communities at large. But as always take your time, do your homework, and find out what fits you best.

FFF
Wes-AOR

You bring up a very good point: It’s not always about which is the best organization, but the best organization for me. All of them—or at least most of them—offer something very important to Odin’s Nation as a whole.

And to add a bit of something to that thought: it’s not always what the org can do for you, but what you can do for the org! What kind of Heathen is looking for a mail-order kindred?!? A worthy Heathen—at least in my mind—is too busy looking for a forum through which s/he can put his/her own 2 pfennings into the movement!