Asian Martial Arts

[enslaved1896]

I was wondering if any of you guys participate in them.

I have had experience in Tae Kwon Do, ****o Ryu, and Isshin Ryu.

I am going to start Soo Bahk Do as next year.

Reason I am asking this is because I have known some "heathen elitists" that scoff at the mere thought of practicing a "non-folkish" martial art.

[Sigurd]

I used to do Taekwondo, but I was more or less still a child then (12 yrs old). By now I see the idea that we should not exploit other people's rights to a culture when our own culture has similar measures. Why participate in an Asian Martial Art, when there is European ones? My point of view. Others may have other views, but to me, as a self-titled Preservationist of Northern European Culture and Religion, the idea of taking from other people's cultures is not to be accepted.
Especially, when, having talked to a Half-Korean girl who practices Taekwondo, the original foundations of the sport/martial arts have deep spiritual and meditational meanings that none of us Europeans understand.
We should not interfere with their martial arts, since they don't interfere with ours either,and our beliefs, right?

And either you're folkish or not. Either your for the preservation of your people and its values, or your for universialist multiculturalism. There is no in between, in my opinion.

But maybe I'm just one of those "Heathen Elitists" that you speak of :lol:

[enslaved1896]

I used to do Taekwondo, but I was more or less still a child then (12 yrs old). By now I see the idea that we should not exploit other people's rights to a culture when our own culture has similar measures. Why participate in an Asian Martial Art, when there is European ones? My point of view. Others may have other views, but to me, as a self-titled Preservationist of Northern European Culture and Religion, the idea of taking from other people's cultures is not to be accepted.
Especially, when, having talked to a Half-Korean girl who practices Taekwondo, the original foundations of the sport/martial arts have deep spiritual and meditational meanings that none of us Europeans understand.
We should not interfere with their martial arts, since they don't interfere with ours either,and our beliefs, right?

And either you're folkish or not. Either your for the preservation of your people and its values, or your for universialist multiculturalism. There is no in between, in my opinion.

But maybe I'm just one of those "Heathen Elitists" that you speak of :lol:

Heh. No problem, man.

I am mainly going to do it for physical fitness reasons.

Are there martial arts pertaining to our people? And if so, what are they called?

[Hengest]

I also do Tae Kwon Do with my eldest son. It is nothing to do with whether I am folkish or not, it is close to my home and it fits around my working shifts. My friend Tyrsson (Guardian of Sunna Rising Hearth) also runs Ishin Ryu classes and has trained in Stav and English Martial Arts.

I am sure we would both prefer to be training in arts linked to our folk but at the moment it is a matter of location.

[Nothung]

Hailsa kinsmen!
It doesn't matter what martial art you do. The crux of it is: are you benefiting from it? It is the person doing the art more than the art itself. Which means the fighting spirit and will mean more than technique. It is true there are arts that will make you tougher. Those are the ones where you train live against resisting opponents. I personally train mostly western arts. Training is a huge part of my life. Bare Knuckle Western Boxing, Catch as Catch Can Wrestling, Greco-Roman and Irish Wrestling and Close Quarter Combative's are my basic style. I've trained in various different styles but theses seem to suit me best. The internal I do intense breathing exorcizes, meditation and Rune Yoga.

Back to what I was saying about the person and the art. In a real high adrenal stress situation we go into survival mode. Most of the pretty moves, kicks and flicks are fine motor skill oriented. They are controlled by the frontal lobes of the brain. When we are under stress in a situation the function turns gross motor skill. We are now functioning in the mid brain region, what some call the monkey brain or lizard brain. Those fine motor skill oriented moves go right out the window. We are in survival mode. If someone doesn't have the fighting spirit and the will to win at all costs... I don't care how many styles they train they will crumble under the stress. That is why the fighting spirit and will must be developed and cultivated..

Ways to do this. The brain does not know the difference between fantasy and reality. A hypnotist can tell someone under hypnosis they are touching a hot stove a blister will appear on their hand. Shadow fighting. You can bring yourself into a high adrenal stress situation by shadow fighting. Set a scene in your head. Like your walking down a dark street. Imagine someone or multiples approaching you trying to set you up and attacking. Get into the fight, tap your animal instincts.. Feel the punches they throw at you,,, feel their faces as you rip them off.. The only limit to this is your imagination.

Scenario based training. Get some training partners. Make up scenarios. Have them approach you in mock situations. Like for instance. If there are 3 guys. All 3 guys do 200 free squats and 100 push ups. Now the scenario is: guy 1 and 2 think guy 3 robbed and beat their mother. They chased guy 3 into a night club. Guy three goes into a back room of the club. The door on the far side of the club is locked. Now guy 1 and 2 are blocking the way out. In the room your training throw on a strobe light. Now guy 3 either has to talk his way out or fight his way out. You can make it more difficult for guy 3 by saying he is not allowed to strike first. Or put rocks in his shoe like he sprained his ankle running. Guys could have training knives. There could be mock beer bottles or sticks laying around for improvised weapons. This is training for reality. Dialogue, pre contact, set ups and tricks you will learn them all. Wear protective gear. The limits on these scenarios are only limited to your imagination.

The esoteric. Rune Yoga is a great way to cultivate the will power. Ritual is another way. Connecting to the warriors of pasts spirit, connecting to the Gods of war and bringing yourself into a frenzied ecstatic state. Also using your fetch animal and Hamrammr are great ways to cultivate the fighting spirit. These are things that you must do on your own and find out what works for you. Your mind is the most powerful weapon you posses. Fighting is 80% mental. Train that weapon along with your body.

Use these things along with your fighting style whatever it is Asian or otherwise and I guarantee you will raise your levels of consciousness and raise your fighting abilities. And if you need to defend yourself you will be surprised at the things that rise up out of you automatically and how fast you crush your opponents.....

By the Spear of Wotan!
Jason

[Liffrea]

Re-enactment can be interesting. There are organisations like the Jomsvikings who specialise in combat techniques.

http://www.jomsvikings.com/training.php

I have joined Regia Anglorum, which is an Anglo-Saxon/Viking re-enactment group. You can train in combat arms. Obviously it is safety orientated, but it can be realistic. I have yet to be blooded in my first slaughter wall, but I am looking foreward to it.

http://www.regia.org/

[Schwarzesonne]

I trained for quite some time in Slant Body-Form Wing Chun and briefly spent some time involved with BaGua Zhang. Both are southern Chinese marital arts. The former is a type of “Chinese boxing” (similar to Gong Fu San Soo), whilst the latter is an internal style (not unlike Japanese Aikido). Whenever I was taking Wing Chun classes I was unaware that there were Western martial techniques being taught anywhere. So at the time this was not an option for me.

By the time I was exposed to BaGua I was fully aware of this. And sure, I’d love to learn Savate or something similar. But these styles were not being taught in my area. Again, kind of a no-brainer!

Regardless of the name of the style or the different nuances between the various styles, a punch is still a punch and a choke is still a choke. A painful hold still hurts. More importantly, learning proper stances/posture, proper breathing, how to move and to lift are valuable for your health and confidence. They are skills/habits that you can apply to everything from a football game to physical labour. Your quality of life will improve by taking ANY martial art. And as they all teach very similar things I really don’t see “the fólkish question” even coming into it at all.

Unless, of course, you want to move to Japan to live with a Shinobi clan to train for the next few years or something like that!

[Lonnie]

I was an avid Judo nut in my younger days, back when they taught the real thing not this competition stuff they teach now days... Studied it for several years while working out with my best friend who was a Liuhe Quan teacher, so some of it rubbed off ;). Later in life I used to be a sparring partner/dummy for some friends who took/earned black belts in Shotokan Karate and Tae Kwon Do... In the last few years my Son took Judo, but we were not happy with the style they were teaching, see my earlier comments. For the last 2 years my Son was taking Kenpo Karate, I started later and took a few months before we left. The owner sold his dojo and the new owner changed the focus of the training. One of the reasons we had chosen that particular school was because of the approach they used and de-emphasis on tournaments and more on everyday life... I've found even these days, almost 30 years later, that when sparring the most instinctive moves for me are those I learned in Judo...

[Nothung]

Hails...
Alot of moves in wrestling and judo are natural movements. If you see kids on the playground wrestling and ruff housing you will see text book wrestling moves. It comes natural... As far as old moves rising up out of you when sparring, sounds like those were ingrained in you... Thats wonderful. Pulling off movements without even thinking of them, just rising up out of you. Thats what training is all about... You fight the way you train.. What the mind learns it quickly forgets, what the body knows it never forgets....

Wassail
Jason

[Son Of Odin]

well... i have been doing taekwondo for a long time.. well long up to 5 or 6 years.. anyway... i had to stop because during a tournament i had a bad kick on the leg which was disastrous for me because i couldn't continue the concert, the sport and i had some therapy even for my knee. it's been a while ago since i had to stop and to be honest.. it shows ;)
I want to begin again.. and at the moment me and my old trainer work on getting me back in to shape which will take a while but still


My opinion on this matter, personaly i say Go for it, people need to learn something like this because the sport gives people confidence, strength (physical and mental) and well.. it's a good way to relax aswell.

[sonofodin_3/75]

Hailsa to all,

I have trained in various forms of fighting styles and arts over the past 20 years. Everything from bar room 101, to wrestling (grapling), many difrent asian arts so on and so on. I by no means no it all but I have a good idea.

I am one of the primary instructors for hand to hand were I work and the trend I have noticed from societies youth is they are pale, pasty and very few have ever been in a real fight or even played contact sports in school. They can however tear you up all day long on a "playstation" or similar arcade game (a softer society). Please keep in mind I said the trend, not all of them. When they come to class many of them respond very well to structured, disciplined instruction. At the completion of all training (around 15 hours over several days, it is an introduction to hand to hand, weapons disarmament and basic knife fighting) I talk to the class or rather get up on my soap box.

It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. That is a very overstated statment, but true none the less. The world is a dangerous place, look at the nearest city to where you live and look at the number of homicides there, some provoked - some not. When you finaly come to the point to where you can no longer resist a physical confrontation you need to understand that in this fight your will be fighting for your life. Many a man has entered a brawl only to die becuase he either underestimated his opponents physical/mental ability or capacity or he entered the fight without the true will to win becuase he did not recognise what was realy on the line. EVERY FIGHT YOU ENTER IS THE ONE FOR YOUR LIFE! So with that said train for realism. By that I mean once you understand the technique you are to use and while training with a partner you make a mistake DO NOT start over. stop right there, recognize your mistake, and fiqure out where to go from there and make it work for you. To many times poeple will train in a style, then engage someone, during the engagment it didnt go like you planed it so you revert to what you know, usually that is wrestling on the ground with your threat. All forms are good for something. But I caution you to take what you need and leave the rest. For example in Tae Kwon Do while sparing you can kick to the head and score points but you can not punch to the head. If you train this way you will fight this way and do yourself a dis-service. A solid stance, strength in attacks and discipline are some of the good things to take away (that is my opinion and that and $1 will buy you a cup of coffee). Study many forms over time and make your own, one that conforms to your cababilities with the sole purpose of destroying a man if the need should arise. Warfare has evolved through the ages.

Well that is my oversimplified opinion on fighting styles. The military is full of profesional soilders and they are very needed, I prefer to be and belong to a class of wariors instead and we are very needed as well.

[Canuck]

[quote] they are pale [quote]

And this affects your ability to crack skulls how? :p

[Fenris]

I've tried all manner of styles, from Shotokan, Shukokai and Goju-Ryu Karate, to Tae Kwon Do and the basic combat form of ninjutsu, though I've always come back to my three favourite styles, which comprise the vast majority of my combat maneuvers, boxing, wrestling, and Muay Thai.

For someone my size, these styles were ideal, allowing you to dominate and overbear smaller opponents and inflict crippling pain and injury on bigger opponents that will make them easier to subdue.

I've also got a good bit of streetfighting experience, and also tend to "savage out" when I get into a really nasty fight. I'll go for weak spots and soft areas like eyes, throat, groin and underarm, maximum pain and maximum stopping power with minimal effort. Strikes to the aforementioned locations, alongside armlocks, chokeholds, headlocks, joint pressure and slamming people into solid objects and the ground seem to be the primary methods I wind up using. Even in less serious fights I usually tend to end up throwing the person around like a ragdoll or putting them in chokeholds and headlocks from behind, then getting them on the ground. The wealth of kicks, knees, elbows and punches I've learned are also useful for those harder-to-grapple opponents, and cover all ranges from short to long.

[solar_nexus]

I was wondering if any of you guys participate in them.

I have had experience in Tae Kwon Do, ****o Ryu, and Isshin Ryu.

I am going to start Soo Bahk Do as next year.

Reason I am asking this is because I have known some "heathen elitists" that scoff at the mere thought of practicing a "non-folkish" martial art.

Well, I myself trained in Isshin Ryu and Tae Kwon Do when I was a teenager (Tae Kwon Do from when I was 15-16 and Isshin Ryu/Judo from when I was 16-18). Honestly, they arn't really great styles, and even back then when I got into a fight I was using stuff from what I learned applied in Folk Style Wrestling and from what I saw while watching WWF (like slams, pile drivers, ect.), and of course from what I learned from Judo. I suppose Tae Kwon has some good kicks, and Isshin Ryu has fairly quick punches, but I didn't really develope as a "striker" until I joined the army and took Boxing and Wing Chun.

I dropped my Isshin Ryu style of punching and blocking real fast when I saw how effective it was against a boxer. Boxing parries and Wing Chun soft blocks are pretty similar, the two striking methods really blend into each other very well.

When I got out of the army I stopped doing martial arts for a while and got fat, but then later on I went into this one school that was teaching submission wrestling(in this case, a mix between freestyle wrestling and bjj) and a kind of free style american kickboxing. While I was doing this I was meeting up with a white tiger gung fu instructer and training with him on the weekends. We would sometimes train together all day.
It was a good school, but unfortunately it closed down. And the white tiger instructer dropped off the face of the planet.
At least it burned off most of what I gained when I left the army.

I was then out of training for about a year, and that was when I found this one school that taught Gracie-Style Jiu Jitsu, Boxing, and Muay Thai...and the head instructer is a UFC veteran (Jeff Curran). Its a good school and I like it. Right now its pretty much my life, all though there are a good deal of people that try to deter me from this for some reason (probably due to their own little inferiority complexes).

So really, I've had a mixture of Eastern and Western Martial Arts. I do wish that I could train exclusively in the Western Martial Arts, too bad there isn't a school that combines boxing, catch wrestling(which came from lancashire wrestling), savate, english swordplay (Hutton and Silver), with some ROSS Concepts and Runic Training thrown in (the material from the Nine Doors of Midgard would suffice, and in my opinion this combined with the boxing/catch wrestling/savate/english swordplay would be superior to anything that you would learn from STAV).

[solar_nexus]

I agree with much of what you are saying here.


"Back to what I was saying about the person and the art. In a real high adrenal stress situation we go into survival mode. Most of the pretty moves, kicks and flicks are fine motor skill oriented. They are controlled by the frontal lobes of the brain. When we are under stress in a situation the function turns gross motor skill. We are now functioning in the mid brain region, what some call the monkey brain or lizard brain. Those fine motor skill oriented moves go right out the window. We are in survival mode. If someone doesn't have the fighting spirit and the will to win at all costs... I don't care how many styles they train they will crumble under the stress. That is why the fighting spirit and will must be developed and cultivated."

I agree with this to a point, but the Old Norse describe two different kinds of berserkergangers, an Asa-Rage and a Giant-Rage. In fact, Thunar is said to have went into an Asa-Rage while his opponent Hrungnir went into a Giant-Rage. These are two very distinct types of Berserkergangers. The Asa-Rage is a more holy and exhaulted rage.....its a state of Lucid Intoxication, where as the Giant-Rage is more or less an animalistic temper tantrum, something akin to how Mike Tyson is. While a Giant-Rage can be effective and is easier to cultivate, it can be extremely degrading to your humanity and you may end up in the newspaper as a murderer or a rapist if you cultivate this kind of Berserkerganger. The reason why is because your most base instincts are being stimulated and empowered over and over again, and your psyche becomes more and more in tune with the reptilian/animalistic world. All you have to do is walk into a prison and you will see what I am talking about. Eventually, this "inner beast" will become so overpowering that you will find that it is taking control of you and will cause you to do some very impulsive, rash, and uncivilized things. Therefore, rather than focusing too much on the brain stem I would focus more on the frontal brain lobe (the third eye) and cultivate Lucid Intoxication, or the Asa-Rage. One should cultivate being calm and centered and not freaking out and getting tense every time they are hit. I've learned that it is best to be totally relaxed and laid back when you are in the ring, and if you get hit there are ways you can "roll" with it and even use it against your enemy by rolling a certain way and feedlooping this force through one of your strikes. The more scared you are the more you will get hurt....and being all ****ed off and tense doesn't help either. There's also the ego factor...the ego can make you tense because you will be worried about what other people might think of your performance, or it can cause you to make some very bad decisions while you are in a fight. The ego is nothing more than a silly little self image that one builds up over their lifetime. It has no reality or substance to it and it is nothing more than a "tension" that keeps you from thinking, feeling, and moving in a fluid manner. The True Self should be unassuming and formless, and not hindered by ego. Flex your bicep and look tough while looking in a mirror. See how stupid that looks? How is that tense bicep going to help you in a fight? That is your ego, its the flexed bicep...but in order to throw an effective punch the bicep has to be relaxed. That is the only way the True Self will have any effectiveness.....you have to "unflex" and relax and let go of the ego. This will help you find the Lucid Intoxication....this will help you open the "third eye" and the way to the mead filled halls of Asgard.........

"The esoteric. Rune Yoga is a great way to cultivate the will power. Ritual is another way. Connecting to the warriors of pasts spirit, connecting to the Gods of war and bringing yourself into a frenzied ecstatic state. Also using your fetch animal and Hamrammr are great ways to cultivate the fighting spirit. These are things that you must do on your own and find out what works for you. Your mind is the most powerful weapon you posses. Fighting is 80% mental. Train that weapon along with your body. "

I agree with you %100 in what you are saying here. However, there are even further mysteries behind why the fetch can cultivate a fighting spirit. The fetch isn't just our animal self, but it is also our contrasexual self too....our "missing half".....someone that we would fall hopelessly in love with if we met them in the flesh. The very essense of Love is the prime motivater of War........the right woman can cause even the biggest coward to become some kind of heroic paladin. This also cultivates another qaulity in the psyche....the relationship between love and courage. This ennoblizes your spirit even more and you become further away from the etinic/thursic reptilian (non)consciousness.....its not a grinding hateful feeling that drives you into the fray but one of love and heroism....an exhaulted state of consciousness.
I also make use of rune yoga and the techniques that you describe....and many other ones too.



Jason[/QUOTE]

[enslaved1896]

I trained for quite some time in Slant Body-Form Wing Chun and briefly spent some time involved with BaGua Zhang. Both are southern Chinese marital arts. The former is a type of “Chinese boxing” (similar to Gong Fu San Soo), whilst the latter is an internal style (not unlike Japanese Aikido). Whenever I was taking Wing Chun classes I was unaware that there were Western martial techniques being taught anywhere. So at the time this was not an option for me.

By the time I was exposed to BaGua I was fully aware of this. And sure, I’d love to learn Savate or something similar. But these styles were not being taught in my area. Again, kind of a no-brainer!

Regardless of the name of the style or the different nuances between the various styles, a punch is still a punch and a choke is still a choke. A painful hold still hurts. More importantly, learning proper stances/posture, proper breathing, how to move and to lift are valuable for your health and confidence. They are skills/habits that you can apply to everything from a football game to physical labour. Your quality of life will improve by taking ANY martial art. And as they all teach very similar things I really don’t see “the fólkish question” even coming into it at all.

Unless, of course, you want to move to Japan to live with a Shinobi clan to train for the next few years or something like that!


I think two words can say it all.....

Hel no!

[Loki's Advocate]

Any other questions must always be secondary to these two questions.

Does what you do prepare you to avoid being hurt by antagonists, prepare you to neutralise any violence they might direct at yourself or others you'd care to defend?

And are you capable of hurting your enemy in return; neutralising his ability to hurt yourself and others?

If the answer is 'yes', and 'yes' again, stick at it. But make sure you achieve the first before the second! If it doesn't, chuck it in the bin. Or don't pretend you're doing a martial art; be honest and say you're participating in that activity for cultural reasons. Simple as that.

[RagnarLodbrok]

I used to be into martial arts but it is too much technique for me. I am one of those people if I get into a fight I don't care about technique I just want to throw punches and pain. I am trying to get into a European form of Wrestling or maybe a Russian kind. Not the fake WCW type either oh no, I mean the type of wrestling where you pick up people and slam them around.

I don't suppose anyone has any links to such things on wrestling?

[Tilaru]

You may want to try Sambo just do a search on it and you'll find a good bit of information.

I personally like weapons.... that might also explain why I like to make sharp pointy things :D

I am a Mondern Arnis instructor, I also do Ba gua and Tai Chi Chaun.
I used to train in Silat but had to stop after an injury. although I still do
some of the Juros. all in all I've trainrd and practice martial arts
for over 20 years.

I've learned the individual practicing the art is a bit more important than which
art you practice. The right person with determination and hard work can take
a style which most people consider just OK and turn it into something amazing
that works for them.

just my $.02.... :)

[HowlingOskorei]

Reason I am asking this is because I have known some "heathen elitists" that scoff at the mere thought of practicing a "non-folkish" martial art.

Ignore them. I get the same because I like black music... just makes me turn it up louder.

Makes you no less "folkish". Whatever that means now. "I'm cool I'm so folkish look at meeeee!!!!!!!"

When standards come into play that dictate what you can and can't do, or can and can't like, then there's a problem.

I'm all for the presevation of my folk, anyone who says otherwise because of a couple songs on my iPod or what you do on your spare time is a fool, and obviously has some issues. Most of them don't do much for the Asatru community but run their mouths on the Internet anyways. Most of them have never been approached by someone who was not of Germanic descent who was interested in Asatru and politely told them that it's not the spiritual path for them and that they should explore the path of their ancestors, and helped to steer them in the right direction... I have.

On another note, I'd like to learn Stav, but I'm in Nova Scotia, nothing here. Sucks.

As for Asian martial arts, I don't think they are as useful as people think. Something like Krav Maga would be more useful for self-defense on the streets. However, I won't knock Asian martial arts completely; good workout, good stress-reliever, and they teach discipline.

[HowlingOskorei]

Speaking of European martial arts: What do you guys think of Savate? I'd like to learn it. Maybe it is the attraction because I am French... heh.

Here is another European art, like wrestling that I find interesting: http://ejmas.com/jwma/articles/2000/jwmaart_kautz_0100.htm

[RagnarLodbrok]

Speaking of European martial arts: What do you guys think of Savate? I'd like to learn it. Maybe it is the attraction because I am French... heh.

Here is another European art, like wrestling that I find interesting: http://ejmas.com/jwma/articles/2000/jwmaart_kautz_0100.htm

Do people still practice glima today? Is there any more links?

I am trying to get into wrestling. I would like to get in a European type of wrestling and not that fake wcw crap.

[Eoghan Odinsson]

Yes, there is a Yahoo Group, look it up and you'll find lots of Glima experts there.

Stav is another Northern European Martial System, in case you hadn't heard of it. check us out at http://www.stav-usa.com

Have fun!

[RagnarLodbrok]

Yes, there is a Yahoo Group, look it up and you'll find lots of Glima experts there.

Stav is another Northern European Martial System, in case you hadn't heard of it. check us out at http://www.stav-usa.com

Have fun!

I have practiced and study most of Asian martial arts and found them to be pointless.

The only martial arts of Asia that I have respect for is Muay Thai kickboxing of Thailand and Samurai Sword fighting.


I think it would we be good to see a 250 hundred pound Nordic Glima wrestler against a master Karate instructor. My guess would be that the wrestler would catch the kick of the Asian Martial Artist and throw him around like a rag doll. The poor chap would be murdered. :p :swinghamm

[Don vonMilikowski]

The only martial arts of Asia that I have respect for is Muay Thai kickboxing of Thailand and Samurai Sword fighting.


Thai boxing is not a martial art, it is like dog fighting (two dogs not old airplane fights). Their legs are deadly but they cannot block. They have high endurance, but you get a couple of good shots to their throat, they will ot want to play any more.

Iaido, if you cannot fight and limit yourself to the use of the Samurai Sword you are limiting your abilities.

I am coming from an Akido, Kempo, Shotokan, Hawang Do, Iaijitsu, Pa Kua (Ba Gua), and Army Hand to Hand fighting background. I prefer the Chinese styles over the Japanese and Korean. I have spent over 25 years in Martial Study (mother thought it would be good for my anger issues, talk about a backfire). All in all, Gun Fu and Ching Ching Pow are two of my other favorites.

About how the "Folkish" view things? I am "UberFolkish" (though I would prefer not to be labelled), I study Asian Healing and Martial arts. Why? Because knowledge is power. People who want to live their life as a tenth century viking may as well forget about modern medicine. When it comes to health, I will take the natural way, just remember there is a reason you see mostly Asians living to be a ripe old age.

I'll take your bet Ragnar. A specialized fighter is a useless fighter. What style of Karate (Japanese)? or can it be any Asian Martial Art (there are tons). What rules, Glima or what? I mean if there are going to be rules, we need to make sure the fighting styles are the same. Oh, a 250 pound man usually relies on intimidation not skill. Power drains fast on larger people. Thinner people are more flexible. WWE is not the real world, neither is Chop Suey movies when it comes to fighting styles. :D :sleep:

[hrolf]

Actually, Scandinavians also have a long life span, average for males is about 75-80. This is mainly because of their diet, but also genetics.

[RagnarLodbrok]

Thai boxing is not a martial art, it is like dog fighting (two dogs not old airplane fights). Their legs are deadly but they cannot block. They have high endurance, but you get a couple of good shots to their throat, they will ot want to play any more.

Iaido, if you cannot fight and limit yourself to the use of the Samurai Sword you are limiting your abilities.

I am coming from an Akido, Kempo, Shotokan, Hawang Do, Iaijitsu, Pa Kua (Ba Gua), and Army Hand to Hand fighting background. I prefer the Chinese styles over the Japanese and Korean. I have spent over 25 years in Martial Study (mother thought it would be good for my anger issues, talk about a backfire). All in all, Gun Fu and Ching Ching Pow are two of my other favorites.

About how the "Folkish" view things? I am "UberFolkish" (though I would prefer not to be labelled), I study Asian Healing and Martial arts. Why? Because knowledge is power. People who want to live their life as a tenth century viking may as well forget about modern medicine. When it comes to health, I will take the natural way, just remember there is a reason you see mostly Asians living to be a ripe old age.

I'll take your bet Ragnar. A specialized fighter is a useless fighter. What style of Karate (Japanese)? or can it be any Asian Martial Art (there are tons). What rules, Glima or what? I mean if there are going to be rules, we need to make sure the fighting styles are the same. Oh, a 250 pound man usually relies on intimidation not skill. Power drains fast on larger people. Thinner people are more flexible. WWE is not the real world, neither is Chop Suey movies when it comes to fighting styles. :D :sleep:

I am not condemning Asian Martial arts I just don't find them appealing to myself. I respect some martial arts but alot of them just look all show to me.

I have nothing wrong with people of the Norse beliefs in martial arts of Asia. I say whatever works.

Sure the 250 pound man would be a Glima wrestler and the rules would be no rules. The Glima wrestler his opponent will be a sensei of Karate. :cool: That I would like to see.

[Schwarzesonne]

Speaking of European martial arts: What do you guys think of Savate? I'd like to learn it. Maybe it is the attraction because I am French...

I think that Savate is an incredibly impressive style, although from what little I’ve seen of it, it looks a bit difficult to learn. Even though it was developed predominantly as a sport style, its application in real combat cannot be dismissed. Which is an interesting thing: most combat styles that have been mutated into sport styles have done so by losing most of their combat edge; but Savate demonstrates that this need not always be the case!

[Don vonMilikowski]

Ragnar,

Do you study Glima? Kinda like wrestling, I am not into rubbing on anoher male. It looks interesting but not for me if people think it is the be all end all.

I am not a Sensei, but I am fairly well rounded in Martial Study both modern and primitave. I have lost and won my fair share of physical matches. I have seen a little tiny person make a mockery of a larger man (usually how it goes anyway).

Major faults in your idea, Glima Wrestler has to get a hold of the Sensei, Shotokan (most common Karate here in the US called Karate-Do) teaches not to be grabbed with hard blocks and power moves (all I hear about from my foreman...... Hey, he is about 220, but a Brown Belt). He knows I trained in it (I was 8 give me a break) so we talk about it.

Glima: Some characteristics which make glima distinct from other styles of wrestling include: 1) upright, erect posture, 2) stigandi (clockwise circular stepping) 3) fixed grips on the glimubelti (wrestling-belt), 4) techniques using only the feet, legs, and hips, 5) no handbrogo ("hand-techniques") other than jerking, swinging, lifting, or off-balancing with the grips fixed on the glimubelti, and 6) no groundwork (i.e. no "matwork"). re: http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/4933/glima.html

Looks like not a lot of adaptibility, so a Monkey Roll would make their day miserable (you said no rules).

Shotokan is stiff in its training, I will give you that: Master Funakoshi's style of karate is now known as Shotokan Karate. For Shoto-Kan, he chose the 16 kata he believed were best suited for physical strength and self-defense. He firmly believed kata was an art, rather than a sport and believed students should spend a minimum of three years learning each kata before advancing. re: http://www.shotokan-arts.com/hist6.htm

The choice is yours if you wish to keep it futile. If YOU are not a Glima wrestler then you only know what you read and hear. You might want to bring the microphone a little higher when you talk and have it around front. If you are a Glima wrestler, I might have to find one locally to test my theory. Don't have the finances to visit Iceland at the moment, nor the will (no offence Icelanders, but I know no one out there, no family either) at the moment. Personally I am bored with this discussion. I was just defending Asian Martial Arts.

[Eoghan Odinsson]

Hey there "enslaved1896". Yes there are martial arts pertaining to our people.

I was looking for the same sort of thing a few years ago. I had trained in many asian styles, and have great respect for them. But, I did want to see if there were styles that came from my opwn heritage. As others have pointed out, it's often a matter of what's available. When I was a kid, Shotokan Karate was all that was in my town. Worked out fine, because it was a very hard, practical style which was great training.

If you want totally practical hard training, check out western swordsmanship. I belong to ARMA (http://www.thearma.org) and we train in all kinds of weapons our Teutonic anecestors used. I specialize in German Long Sword, but there are also lots of uarmed technique as well.

If you want something more holistic, try Stav. It uses weapons our ancestors trained with, as well as incorporating runes, and also brings in lots of good material from modern asian martial arts. It's lots of fun too.

http://www.stav-usa.com

Feel free to contact me if you want more info.

Eoghan

[HowlingOskorei]

OK... here's my question: What would be a good European martial art for a 130 lb woman to learn?

I have bad ankles, previous sports injuries, and seems that the Asian martial arts I have studied have helped me strengthen them a great deal. I am kind of weary about the European martial arts that I am familiar with because of my injuries, wouldn't want to aggrivate them more.

[Eoghan Odinsson]

Hey there Christine! I have family up in Pugwash, and for those who aren't from Nova Scotia, you'll have no clue in the world where this is. But that's ok ;)

Check out our runes stances video:

http://part-time-projects.com/Stav/content/view/205/153/

I think you might enjoy Stav, and even with the challenges you mentioned, I think you'd find the daily rune stances fun, easy to do, and beneficial.

Tyrrson on this list also does the 24 Futhark stances that he may be able to tell you about.

[Hengest]

Tyrrson on this list also does the 24 Futhark stances that he may be able to tell you about.

I think you might be confusing the Tyrsson here with Tyrsson OR, the Garman of the OR, who isn't on this list but does the 24 Rune Stances daily.

[HowlingOskorei]

Pugwash? Not too far from me, I'm from Pictou originally. Live in Halifax now.

Thanks for the video. Will check it out!

[RagnarLodbrok]

Ragnar,

Do you study Glima? Kinda like wrestling, I am not into rubbing on anoher male. It looks interesting but not for me if people think it is the be all end all.

I am not a Sensei, but I am fairly well rounded in Martial Study both modern and primitave. I have lost and won my fair share of physical matches. I have seen a little tiny person make a mockery of a larger man (usually how it goes anyway).

Major faults in your idea, Glima Wrestler has to get a hold of the Sensei, Shotokan (most common Karate here in the US called Karate-Do) teaches not to be grabbed with hard blocks and power moves (all I hear about from my foreman...... Hey, he is about 220, but a Brown Belt). He knows I trained in it (I was 8 give me a break) so we talk about it.

Glima: Some characteristics which make glima distinct from other styles of wrestling include: 1) upright, erect posture, 2) stigandi (clockwise circular stepping) 3) fixed grips on the glimubelti (wrestling-belt), 4) techniques using only the feet, legs, and hips, 5) no handbrogo ("hand-techniques") other than jerking, swinging, lifting, or off-balancing with the grips fixed on the glimubelti, and 6) no groundwork (i.e. no "matwork"). re: http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/4933/glima.html

Looks like not a lot of adaptibility, so a Monkey Roll would make their day miserable (you said no rules).

Shotokan is stiff in its training, I will give you that: Master Funakoshi's style of karate is now known as Shotokan Karate. For Shoto-Kan, he chose the 16 kata he believed were best suited for physical strength and self-defense. He firmly believed kata was an art, rather than a sport and believed students should spend a minimum of three years learning each kata before advancing. re: http://www.shotokan-arts.com/hist6.htm

The choice is yours if you wish to keep it futile. If YOU are not a Glima wrestler then you only know what you read and hear. You might want to bring the microphone a little higher when you talk and have it around front. If you are a Glima wrestler, I might have to find one locally to test my theory. Don't have the finances to visit Iceland at the moment, nor the will (no offence Icelanders, but I know no one out there, no family either) at the moment. Personally I am bored with this discussion. I was just defending Asian Martial Arts.

I have only heard of Glima wrestling I have not seen a match personally. I wonder is there a wrestling tradition where punching and kicking is included.

I myself am not a Glima wrestler. I do study wrestling though. My fighting style is wrestling and good old fashion street fighting.

Wrestling is not all about rubbing on one another that sounds like rubbish.

You might be bored with this discussion but it was never my intention to insult martial arts as I have said I respect some traditions.

I just think there is alot of European traditions that can teach just as useful tips to fight well.

[Eoghan Odinsson]

Thanks Whitehorse...my mistake

:)

[skáta]

Hello all...

Just joined here and thought I'd add my $.02. I have studied various martial arts for many years. My experience has been that most (regardless of original geography) have become combat sports, character builders, and/or dance classes for those looking for a hobby and social interaction. Very few are actually oriented, in any real way, to combat or survival.

Of the few that I have found that had actual combative value, I have found more common threads than differences... at least where the mechanics of movement and combat are concerned. Philosophy is another matter entirely.

That said, there are a finite number of ways to effectively align and move the human body through space. With that in mind the biggest difference I have found in various, "valid", martial arts is in philosophical focus and cultural influence.

FYI, for those looking for a warrior tradition with a northern European philisophical bent, another option can be found in my sig line. PM me if you have an interest.

HTH

skáta

Skátavegr™ Warrior Sciences

[Skallagrim]

Im with you mate :)

[Liffrea]

I will take up jujitsu at the end of this month, or the beginning of February. I don’t think it compromises my Folkish nature to do so. My cultural identity is strong enough to not be threatened by it. The attitude of respect and discipline is something all of us here should be used to anyway in our own beliefs.

Its appeal, to me, is its practical as opposed to artistic aspect. I am not interested in competition or fancy techniques, just a useful practical skill and a way of helping my fitness. The history behind it appeals to me as well. From what I understand jujitsu was the original combat technique of the Samurai. The emphasis being on neutralising an opponent without having to use fatal techniques.

[Eoghan Odinsson]

Liffrea, Ju-jitsu is a great art. Something that may suprise people is that many of the Ju-Jitsu techniques are identical to European Medieval unarmed combat techniques.

If you look at the original source manuals written in the middle ages, which are available online all over the place, you will see striking similarities.

Here is just one example: http://www.thearma.org/Manuals/CodexW.htm


This is not due to any cultural exchange, but simply that human musculo-skeletal structures are nearly identical, and principles for causing pain and joint locks are universal.

So enjoy ju-jitsu amd know that you are learning techniques that our ancestors may have also used.

[Liffrea]

Thanks Eoghan. :)

I will have a read of that article later on. From initial glances some of those techniques do appear to be similar to jujitsu. As you say there are only so many natural movements the human body can carry out.

[Eoghan Odinsson]

Other manuals that deal with just unarmed and dagger technique are even more like ju-jistu, I just happened to have that link handy :)

The codex wallerstein has all kinds of other stuff too, like sword, spear etc.

[Johnny]

Most English martial arts were banned/watered down by King James 1.

I have studied Japanese martial Arts for many years and recently flicked through a book on 16th century german field arts. i didn't buy this book as i could identify the stances and moves presented within this volume. i have read books such as English Martial Arts- T Brown, and again the moves are the same.

the human body, regardless of geographical/tribal birthplace always moves the same way. Therefore a Six foot staff is still a six foot staff regardless where in the world it is. besides the ancients weren't beyond pinching tactics from their enemies. Herman of Cherusci had trained in ROME and held rank in the Roman legion.

On a folkish level it is worth noting that hot countries fight in robes and have a lot of kicking (China/Africa) whilst colder climates have more wrestling/grappling (Europe/Japan). Martial arts were designed for if you lost/broke your weapon.

[Galloglaich]

Thanks Eoghan. :)

I will have a read of that article later on. From initial glances some of those techniques do appear to be similar to jujitsu. As you say there are only so many natural movements the human body can carry out.

I took some of my fechtbooks into my jujitsu instructors about two years ago for the express purpose of showing them the similarities in techniques between East & West. I think they were pretty surprised to see the extent of similarity between our techniques and the fechtbooks. One of the instructors ended up borrowing Talhoffer for about six months, just because he thought it was so cool.

[insurgent Wolf]

who here has been in tae kwon do

[irishskin]

another european form of fighting is from the greeks its called pankration/or pankrase.it roughly translates to "the game of all powers".it was a mix of greco roman wrestling {pummel and upper body lock and control} with boxing and judo type throws.the old forms of this are still taught in greece.but the versions that are taught in our times are alot different.the training you go through now is much easier then how it was 2,800 years ago.anyways i learned brazillian jui jitsu at arizona combat sports in tempe and recieved a blue belt in this.also i have done boxing and lots of muay thai over the years.

one of the most important things i can tell any of you is that regardless of my training or skill level if someone jams there thumb into my eye socket,or crushes my larnex in my neck im not going to be able to do much fighting.i will be finished.this is what my brother showed me when he came home from the marine core.i told him "i am tough and can choke you out".we battled and he grabbed the top of my ear twisting it down towards my neck while he gouged my eye socket and i begged him to stop after 5 seconds.he is much smaller then me.the lesson to me was clear enough.prize fighters have no concept of battlefield style hand to hand combat.

but i was taught how to fight in a ring.he was taught by the government to kill.people need to realize that is why its best to not get into street fights if possible.if you do, assume they will use every tactic to hurt, and stop you.not just a punch to your face.if thats what they do thank odin because it could be much worse.trust me i learned the hard way!

[OrderOfTheDragon]

I have always heard (whether it is true or not is another story) that Asian arts like Judo, Jiu-Jitsu, the wrestling in Mongolia, etc were all influenced by Alexander's travels into the east. His military men were all well versed in Pankration (the precursor to modern day MMA), they introduced the grappling based systems. I don't know if that is true, sounds a bit like revisionist history to me, but either way, interesting to contemplate. As for me, I have been wrestling for almost a decade, various styles, although catch is my favorite. I also do Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, and Kick boxing. There really isn't one perfect style, and being well versed in many is the key in my opinion.

I also don't think an art can have a nationality. What is the difference in a British wrestler doing a hip throw and a Japanese Judoka doing a hip throw? Other than the nationality of the participants, it's still a hip throw. It's like saying a moving my left hand in an upward movement is Ukrainian...doesn't make much sense to me. Granted I know philosophy and spirituality run rampant in the Asian based arts, but if you remove that, you just have physical motions. That being said, I do feel a sense of cultural pride and heritage stepping onto a wrestling match, knowing our people have been fighting this way for thousands of years.