Does anyone support a prisoner?

[heilwotan]

Does anyone support a prisoner? I notice this topic was blank. What are some Folks opinions on this?

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

If you have any address' for Odinic Prisioners post them. I know ive written to a few heathen prisioners. No reply back yet but at least they know that their not alone.

[Algiz Aegirsson]

I don't know any prisonned Heathens, though I'd like to get to know some.

[Der Einzelgänger]

What is the purpose of prisoner outreach?

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Supporting Odinist/Heathen prisioners who might not be given their right to practice whatever religion they want. Many people make mistakes in their life and that goes for Odinists and other heathens aswell. Some people become Odinists in prision. The Odinic Rite is big into prision outreach and helping prisioners gain religious rights, things like being able to hold blots and wear a Mjollnir. Many prisions in the US and Canada will allow muslims a place to pray, they will offer a area for christians to study and read the bible and hold sermon but it isnt verry often a prision will let folk blot and hail our gods. Prisioner outreach is where we support our folk behind bars, write to them and offer them support. You would not believe the positive articles I have read in ORB (Odinic Rite Briefing, magazine of OR members) written by prisioners and how Odinism has changed their life and how they feel they are much stronger and better people becasue of it.

Just because someone is in prision for a mistake that they made 5 years ago and is working to better themselfs does not mean they are no longer folk. We're human and we make mistakes, its learning from those mistakes and becoming better people that makes us strong. Odinist prisioners deserve just as much support from us as any other heathen brothers or sisters.

[Der Einzelgänger]

Sounds cool. How do I go about getting involved in it? How do I know who to write to?

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

You could always send Kathy (aud_friggsdottir) a PM and ask her how to get involved. She's big on prisioner support and outreach. Joining the Odinic Rite would also be a good plan since you are in Vinland and PA. Maybe you and IrishJay could get some Odinism promotion going on in your state.

[Der Einzelgänger]

Sounds like a plan. Recently I've just been feeling I need to do more for the Folk, and this seems like a good idea. Thanks Hved.

[Katia]

I can round up some addresses of some of the prisoners I know are stand-up individuals.. I'll post them tomorrow...

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

I can round up some addresses of some of the prisoners I know are stand-up individuals.. I'll post them tomorrow...
Great Katia, post them in a new thread where other people can post address' to our folk behind bars.

[Teufelhunden]

I as of yet have not but feel in my heart that I sdhould and it would be the right thing to do..
Let me know.
Teufelhunden

[Sigurd]

Wait...there were topics on this in the old forum. Maybe one of you admins still has a backup of them, and could post them adresses?

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Those old addresses were not for Odinist/Heathen prisioners. They will not be reposted here on the new forum.

[Katia]

I started a new thread within this subforum for addresses, if anyone is interested...

[Scramaseax]

The only prisoner I would ever think of supporting would be one who a) was actually innocent or b) is imprisoned for a crime without a victim eg posession of *****. If you're so damn religious then you should have thought about that before you raped, murdered stole etc. It really bothers me to hear these rapists and murderers talking about how religious they are and demanding to have all sorts of paraphenailia at the taxpayers expense to carry out their religion. Does your religion condone what you did?

[Katia]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Scramaseax, and yours has been noted. No one is forcing you to write to a prisoner, it is just an option we wanted to make available for those who might be interested. Personally the only prisoner I would not communicate with would be one imprisoned for a sex crime. But for the others, I think everyone has the oppurtunity to better themselves and if someone can find a strength through Odinism to do that, then more power to you and they deserve some kind of support. I have done alot of things in my past I am not proud of and I would hate for someone to judge me based on that just because I was lucky enough to not fall into the hands of the state. Also many prisoners discover Odinism after they are incarcerated and if they wish to find someone to talk to about it or answer their questions, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that. They do not have access to the internet or forums like these to express themselves through. Personal evolution to turn something terrible into something fruitful.... isn't that what Odinism is all about, really?

[Scramaseax]

If someone discovered Odinism after commiting the crime then it's a slightly different story because it's less hypocritical, but I still wouldn't support them if they'd hurt an innocent person. I just find it absurd saying "I need all these special items because I need to follow my religion", but they weren't too fussed about following their religion when they raped/murdered/stole.
With regards to Asatru, this case (http://kadlinw.tripod.com/rust.htm) annoys me, for example. Prisoners saying they need all sorts of things to practise Asatru, when these are things that alot of law-abiding Asatruars don't have. Prison isn't supposed to be a nice place.

[heilwotan]

If someone discovered Odinism after commiting the crime then it's a slightly different story because it's less hypocritical, but I still wouldn't support them if they'd hurt an innocent person. I just find it absurd saying "I need all these special items because I need to follow my religion", but they weren't too fussed about following their religion when they raped/murdered/stole.
With regards to Asatru, this case (http://kadlinw.tripod.com/rust.htm) annoys me, for example. Prisoners saying they need all sorts of things to practise Asatru, when these are things that alot of law-abiding Asatruars don't have. Prison isn't supposed to be a nice place.

I disagree with all that Scramaseax beacuse just imagine that wannabe Odinist is denied all those things to explore and learn about his true faith, and never learns Honor, or any of the Noble Virtues, and justs sits there stewing in his hatered for the world, himself, and the cops. He will just sit there replaying over and over in his mind how he "F"**ed-up on the crime he commited, he's just thinking about revenge and doing it right the next time he gets out. Prisons are school of criminology, a criminal goes in and comes out as a "better" criminal, more schooled by his peers on how to do crimes better and manipulate when he gets out. Prisons are a revolving door, and the people who run the judicial systems are loving it because it keeps them in business, job security! Do you think prisons have any rehabilitation? What, their peers? Or their bible studies that they use as an excuse to get out of the cells?

Just think that Odinism might be a way for one man to make himself a better person vs. a worse criminal. A way to save his life from the hands of his bad decisions and the money hungry prison system.
Think about it.

Heil Wotan!!!!

[Lonnie]

Having been involved with some inmate work both currently and in the past, I would agree on some points with Scramaseax, and not agree probably on others... Inmate work really depends on the person doing the work. Some have set standards where there are certain crimes they will have nothing to do with, and others who welcome any and all. Depending on the institution and state can make a real difference as to what say a person has as to whom they deal with. There are some folk, no matter how 'Tru' they might be, I would have nothing to do with... That has to do with orlag and luck issues as much as anything... No matter what, the luck and orlag of my own come before those I don't know...

[Hengest]

The only prisoner I would ever think of supporting would be one who a) was actually innocent or b) is imprisoned for a crime without a victim eg posession of *****.


So someone makes a mistake and then wants to turn their life around after finding Odinism and you would not give them that chance?

The vast majority of Odinist prisoners find Odinism IN prison and they see that there is a better and more honourable way of living. I know many excellent people involved in outreach and they are overwhelmed by the passion for our faith that some of these prisoners show.

They overcome all sorts of odds just to be able to hold a blot or to even have their faith recognised as a valid one.

And who ever mentioned rapists? No Odinist would support a rapist. And what about Murder? Are all murders unforgiveable? Suppose someone did something to your kids and you killed them?

Leave your real name and we'll make sure that if you ever end up in jail that we don't write.

[Scramaseax]

So someone makes a mistake and then wants to turn their life around after finding Odinism and you would not give them that chance?

I'd be more concerned about the victim personally. I don't think taxpayer money should go to facilitate the religions of prisoners, noone gives me free books or free Mjollnirs. If religious groups want to do it out of their own pocket then that's up to them. It seems hypocritical for violent offenders to complain about their rights when they showed no concern for the rights of their victims.



And who ever mentioned rapists? No Odinist would support a rapist.

It was about "prisoners", rapists would fall into this category and I said I wouldn't support a rapist. So we agree on that. If you support other criminals then why not support rapists too? Seems arbitrary. What if a convicted rapist is really passionate about Odinism? Rape's bad but murder is okay?


And what about Murder? Are all murders unforgiveable? Suppose someone did something to your kids and you killed them?

When I say murder I mean the murder of an innocent person. Someone imprisoned for defence would fall into category a) (defence is supposed to be legal) and I'd be okay with them. As for retribution, it's not as obviously okay as actual defence but I'd still be okay with somebody who did that. By my own morality killing someone who didnt deserve it is much worse than killing someone who did. It does depend exactly what they did to my kids, and if me killing them myself was necessary to get justice.


Leave your real name and we'll make sure that if you ever end up in jail that we don't write.

I don't think I'm ever going to be in jail but if I was jailed and deserved it, then I wouldn't expect or deserve any support.

[Katia]

Well I think that Odinist prisoners deserve the same rights as their Christian counterparts. Christians run the show in there -- they can have ministers come in a few times a week, they are all allowed to have bibles in their cells and wear crosses. Why shouldn't Odinists be allowed to keep copies of the Eddas in their cells, wear a Mjollnir, and receive religious visits as well? No one is talking about giving prisoners free Mjollnirs, most are willing to make their own, they just want the religious freedom to be able to wear it and I absolutely think that that deserves our support. By the way, any lawyer will tell you that when there is a lawsuit the plaintiff is encouraged to ask for above and beyond what they actually want -- this will increase their chances for the judge to side with at least one or a few of their requests, and after reading through that link I am pretty sure this is what is happening in this case.

Not to mention that if our religious freedoms are recognized within the Department of Corrections, it is actually a major step for our faith. This is a government run institution after all and if we can get them to accept us and work with us it is a stepping stone for bigger things to come.

[Scramaseax]

We're in agreement on the above. If taxpayers are going to fund the religious needs of prisoners then I'd be happier knowing at least some of my tax was going to Odinism. If it's okay to wear a cross then it should be okay to wear a Mjollnir.

So if rapists are bad, what criminals are okay? Is there any particular type of criminal that becomes attracted to Odinism? (aside from it being Caucasian prisoners)

[aud_friggsdottir]

So if rapists are bad, what criminals are okay? Is there any particular type of criminal that becomes attracted to Odinism? (aside from it being Caucasian prisoners)

Hail!

First well said Katia...I completely agree.

I think it is easier to say who is not okay. Rapists, child molesters, child abusers, those kinds of things for obvious reasons.

As for who is attracted? There is a wide range of offenses. We volunteer at a medium security, so they are mostly drug offenders (I would say a large majority, sad really what has become of our Folk), but there were those in for robbery, bank robbery, racketeering, and what not.

[Hapster]

PICTURE:
http://writeaprisoner.com/template.asp?i=z-k27193

This person will respond and would love to hear from anyone who is from this Faith! :)

[Cottatt]

To me, the key thing with Prisoners is to guide them towards the concept of reparation, a traditional punishment.

Although, of course, with today's values, approaching the victim with such an aim would be frowned upon; but, after release, working towards bettering the community as a whole would be a suitable reparation.

I would be interested in participating in 'Outreach' but could not work with Drug Sellers (poisoners) or those who have abused their position (oathbreakers).

[Scramaseax]

I think that would be an interesting avenue for a Heathen prisoner to pursue. Pay for their crime(s) according to Heathen law.


Punishments vary according to the quality of the crime. Traitors and deserters they hang upon trees. Cowards, and sluggards, and unnatural prostitutes they smother in mud and bogs under an heap of hurdles. Such diversity in their executions has this view, that in punishing of glaring iniquities, it behoves likewise to display them to sight; but effeminacy and pollution must be buried and concealed. In lighter transgressions too the penalty is measured by the fault, and the delinquents upon conviction are condemned to pay a certain number of horses or cattle. Part of this mulct accrues to the King or the community, part to him whose wrongs are vindicated, or to his next kindred.

Germania Chapter 12

[Der Einzelgänger]

I'm not so sure I agree, considering todays society, but one question, if there is unnatural prostitution, what is natural prostitution?

[Canuck]

if there is unnatural prostitution, what is natural prostitution?

Unnatural prostitution likely refers to homosexuality.

[Der Einzelgänger]

Ah, now I see.

[Scramaseax]

Tacitus didn't write unnatural prostitutes of course, he wrote corpore infames, "bodily infamy".

[Lee]

The idea of outreach is one that admittedly, I didn’t find to be palatable on first inspection. I’ve read this thread and would like to ask the following questions to get my head around the idea.

1. If you were to contact an outreach prisoner, would the times he/she had been in prison matter to you? If someone is a serial offender, is there a stage where you think that their anti-social behavior has been too frequent, with too many innocent victims, for them to offered some sympathy?

Whilst I agree that outreach may be effective with first time offenders, I’ve got to say that serial offenders don’t really illicit much sympathy in my opinion. The first time you commit a crime, it can be seen as a mistake. I’ve done things that, had I been caught, I would have gone to prison for. So I’m not going to be a hypocrite and say that all prisoners are beyond redemption.

The second time people commit crimes and go to jail, then obviously prison hasn’t worked, either in a punishment or rehabilitation scenario. But, yet again, a result of the prisoners actions, a second person/people has suffered. But maybe they are deserving of sympathy to a certain extent and they shouldn’t be written off.

If there is a third time, then I really think that anyone loses any sympathy. They have caused too much destruction and misery for their rights to be considered. I think there is a good case for them never to be released from prison as decent, law-abiding people’s interests should be put first, not those of habitual criminals.

I can’t seem to comprehend how a person who was an Odinist, someone who believes in honour, self-reliance, discipline and industriousness would ever find themselves in prison in the first place. It seems to totally go against the basic tenets of what Odinism is all about. So my next question is:

2. Would you only contact a prisoner who has become an Odinist in prison? Would you contact someone who has been an Odinist already but has been incarcerated through their anti-social behaviour?

My basic stance is that in the country I live in, the UK, too much importance is given to offenders and not enough given to the innocent victim. Criminals go against the idea of the Folk and whilst there are exceptions obviously, I do think that the rights of decent, law abiding people should always take precedent over those who have chosen through their own actions to abuse the freedom given to them.

I hope I haven’t offended anyone with my comments, as that was not my intention, but I really would like some opinions on what I’ve said from fellow Odinists because I must admit that the idea of prisoner outreach is one that, given the provisos above, seem to actually go against Odinist philosophy to a certain extent.

[calumthug]

I have worked as a correctional officer for over a year now. Not a long time, but enough to observe some behaviors. I see the validity in many of the aruements here and want to pose some questions.

There are some who abuse the system, they use the programs to get out of their cell or to get food. In fact, when my facility temporarily banned the bible study group from bringing food, Offenders stopped showing up. There were some who still kept going. Would we deny honest Asatruar a chance to better themselves because of the others? Would the others perhaps benefit from Asatru despite themselves?

As a Correctional Officer, I actually go out of my way to avoid learning the crimes the Offenders have committed. All that matters to me is there behavior while they are here. The courts do the punishing, we "Effect meaningful change" in accordance with our directive. This is an honest question here, does dealing with a rapist, for example, effect my orlog if I try to help that person change? How is one who is not actually in corrections to know what crimes an Offender has commited, or whether or not they were innocent? There is a somewhat true joke among my coworkers "How can you tell when an Inmate is lying-his lips are moving."

Ryan

[Thomas]

I know of an incarcerated Heathen....Varg Vikernes, those of you that listen to Black Metal will have most likely heard of him and his band, Burzum. His address is :

DELETED

[Hengest]

Varg Vikernes is an idiot who deserves to be in prison. His actions have done severe damage to our faith.

Burning down ancient churches during which a firefighter was killed is not the action of an Odinist.

[Hveðrungur Kveldúlfsson]

Agreed White Horse, I think everyone on this forum knows my opinions on Varg Vikernes. After looking over Thomas' profile I have decided to moderate him :)

[Sigurd]

I know of an incarcerated Heathen....Varg Vikernes, those of you that listen to Black Metal will have most likely heard of him and his band, Burzum. His address is :

DELETED

OK explaining the Vikernes situation:

While Vikernes has done a great deal to promote the fame of Black Metal, he has done a great deal too to pervert the faith of Odinists. His interpretations of the old lore in a fascistic way have helped the general public to believe that all of us would share his views, AKA that we should "smite the Mud Races". I have read Vargsmal, and while, IMO, he does explain his point well, his ideas are not in accordance with heathen beliefs, and for the adding of an adress: Whoever is interested, it was posted on the old forums (HARHAR no access :p ) by somebody, don't know who. Fine, fine, I have his address somewhere as well, from the time when I was supportive of his views. But well, if you want to spread this address out to anybody, then do it on a NS forum, I am sure they'll be interested. Especially seeing that the main reason of his incarceration was not only killing a former friend, but a Communist, and I am sure some Vikernes followers will agree that this would have been "good."

While some of his views, such as the pendulum in everything and everyone that swings up and down, are quite good, others are not quite so good, and some are quite not so acceptable especially on these forums. If you wonder why, please read the revised edition of the rules. They are marked as an announcement, so it will not be hard for you to find them. Thank you, and for your own safety, I advise you to keep Vikernes stuff off the board, especially as it may be offensive to many people. And also because you might be banned for a misjudging of the rules - that the Vikernes thing has a political background, initiated often by followers of NSBM who decide that they have to become like their idols such as Vikernes and Moebus. So, seriously, for your own safety, you should not be supportive of Vikernes on the boards.

Well, hope this was not taking the words away from anyone, and that...well...this is alright to say...and stuff...and well... it can't be that hard to keep Vikernes stuff off the board, also for the reasons that as far as I have heard, this has resulted in unwanted arguments about politics - our faith is NOT about politics! Vikernes stuff can really be discussed elsewhere. If you discuss his music here, of course in the appropriate forums, I don't think that too many people will mind. His music is good Black Metal, and I own some of his albums myself and own a Burzum LS T-Shirt. But for me this is just music, and I care about his music, not about his beliefs. For all I know, by now I don't share them, and agree that they should stay off this board. One should be able to keep Music and Politics and Religion apart. Saying "we heathens" to promote his White Supremacist beliefs of "Racial Hygiene" is a perversion of our faith as well.

PS: Thomas. Everybody knows about Trondheim (?) Fengsel, and who really wants to seek him out or write him a letter, should probably do a bit of research, you can find the address of it on several places. Thanks for being considerate about this.

-Sigurd.

[Hapster]

PICTURE:http://writeaprisoner.com/template.asp?i=z-k27193This person will respond and would love to hear from anyone who is from this Faith! :)

I spoke with this inmate yesterday and he wanted to thank me for putting up his name and address on this website. He is enjoying the penpal letters about Odinism. :)

I added his picture to www.lostvault.com
http://www.lostvault.com/penpals/detail.asp?iType=17&iAd=4762

If anyone would like to consider writing him about Odinism he would appreciate it! :)

PS His Birthday is comin up on July 7th! ;)

[Somerled]

Does anyone support a prisoner? I notice this topic was blank. What are some Folks opinions on this?

Yeah, I have one or two guys I corresponde with. One of them is an AB guy, but he doesn't really write anymore.

[Hengest]

I spoke with this inmate yesterday and he wanted to thank me for putting up his name and address on this website. He is enjoying the penpal letters about Odinism. :)

I added his picture to www.lostvault.com
http://www.lostvault.com/penpals/detail.asp?iType=17&iAd=4762

If anyone would like to consider writing him about Odinism he would appreciate it! :)

PS His Birthday is comin up on July 7th! ;)


Yes, I wrote to Richard and got a nice reply. He seems a pretty sensible guy and accepts the reasons he is in jail. I am pleased that he has found something positive in his life. I will be writing again soon and wanted to send him some stuff, do you know the rules for that particular institution?

[Hapster]

Yes, I wrote to Richard and got a nice reply. He seems a pretty sensible guy and accepts the reasons he is in jail. I am pleased that he has found something positive in his life. I will be writing again soon and wanted to send him some stuff, do you know the rules for that particular institution?
White Horse, Thank You and this prison is the worse of the worse as far as it goes with Religious Mail. I am a prisoner rights advocate and do alot of fighting on behalf of many. One website that seems to be having trouble getting Books and material into California Prisons is www.asatru.org

Corcoran State Prison which Richard is at, became infamous in 1997 as the PRISON GLADIATORS!
Corcoran Prison is known for Correctional Officers setting up fights amongst the inmates and making bets on who is going to win. Some Employees for California Department of Corrections have their own gang called "THE GREEN WALL" I found this biography on Corcoran State Prison in California if you would like to learn about how awful this place is:
http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws131.htm

Many inmates need medical treatment not more abuse. One of my favorite writers, Jenifer Warren for the LA Times Newspaper, has just written an article:
July 1, 2005
U.S. to Seize State Prison Health System
A federal judge, citing experts' reports of fatal incompetence and neglect, will name a receiver for the $1.1-billion program.
By Jenifer Warren, Times Staff Writer

SAN FRANCISCO — A federal judge said Thursday that he would seize control of prison healthcare from the state and place it under a receiver, declaring that "extreme measures" were needed to fix a system that kills one inmate each week through medical incompetence or neglect.
U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson said that despite repeated warnings from his court and the "good intentions" of some state officials, the Department of Corrections continues to allow sick prisoners to die "for no acceptable reason." The judge said he would soon issue a written order outlining details of the receivership and begin discussing potential receivers with lawyers in the case.

The rest of the article can be read at:
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/medicine/la-me-prisons1jul01,1,7493302.story?coll=la-health-medicine&ctrack=1&cset=true

There are many many many inmates that members of this forum must take caution. I will not post or list an inmate that I feel is not worthy of this Site.

The Supreme Court ruled last month in favor of a law requiring prisons to allow worship and materials for religious practices. That law requires state governments to prove a compelling reason in denying prisoner's religious needs. The Supreme Court has Upheld Inmates' Religious Rights, but in California CDC is seriously talking about not allowing ANY religious material in with reasons like; being "GANG RELATED" or something as silly as "A SCAM".

The California Department of Corrections is not happy about the religion Criminon (http://www.criminon.org ) which is based on the theory of Ron Hubbard's Scientologists or Church of Scientology. Another LA Times story:
Scientologists Reach Behind Bars

Scientology's goal, said professor Stephen Kent, a University of Alberta sociologist who studies the group, "is to destroy psychiatry and replace it with Scientology's own treatments. Criminon is simply one of many Scientology organizations that hope to see this goal realized."

Kent reviewed the Criminon instruction material at The Times' request.

"If inmates, through Criminon, adopt Scientology's rigid ideological stance against psychiatry," he said, "then mental health professionals within the prison and parole systems are at risk."

Richard is at Corcoran because he was falsely accused of something he did not do. Part of the California Department of Corrections system is called "A Kangaroo Kourt", in other words "I THINK YOU DID IT!" So, inmates are given a SHU Term even though they have evidence they did not do the crime committed. Remember the system inside runs on the policy: "SNITCH AND DIE".
White Horse may I suggest you send the material and when I visit Richard again I will let him know it is coming. If it is not received by him in a timely manner, he will file a 602 requesting it. I visit several Inmates at this prison and one is an Innocent man who will soon be exonerated. :) I had to practical beat the heads at the Public Defenders office to get them to listen to me and this inmate. Well, this innocent man has done 8 yrs for something he did not do and he is going to finally have his day in court.

Another site I would like to suggest for good reading material about inmates and reports the abuse and advocates for California inmates especially at Corcoran is :
http://www.prisons.org/

Thanks Again!

[wesley]

Greetings Hapster,
I just sent a letter,(through the e-mail message),to Richard. Now I was formerly incarcerated in two California institutions. The last one I was in I found out about Odinism, and I've never gone back to my agnostic beliefs. Anyways while I was there I fought the powers that be with my kinsmen, and as a result was able to get World Tree Publishing as an approved vendor along with Runa-Raven Press. I was also able to get Thor's Hammer medallions,(at the price of getting my 'handcraft Thor's Hammer confiscated. Yet it was a sacrifice I'd do again because of the outcome.),books, and personal mead horn cups approved. I know each facility will fight against us saying that we are some kind of 'white supremist' group under the guise of religion, which is of course absurd. Yet these institutions allow religious groups like the Christian Identity and Nation of Islam, which are by their own teachings, are supremist groups. Kinda makes you go, hmmm?

[mrsdragon]

1. If you were to contact an outreach prisoner, would the times he/she had been in prison matter to you? If someone is a serial offender, is there a stage where you think that their anti-social behavior has been too frequent, with too many innocent victims, for them to offered some sympathy?

Whilst I agree that outreach may be effective with first time offenders, I’ve got to say that serial offenders don’t really illicit much sympathy in my opinion. The first time you commit a crime, it can be seen as a mistake. I’ve done things that, had I been caught, I would have gone to prison for. So I’m not going to be a hypocrite and say that all prisoners are beyond redemption.

The second time people commit crimes and go to jail, then obviously prison hasn’t worked, either in a punishment or rehabilitation scenario. But, yet again, a result of the prisoners actions, a second person/people has suffered. But maybe they are deserving of sympathy to a certain extent and they shouldn’t be written off.

If there is a third time, then I really think that anyone loses any sympathy. They have caused too much destruction and misery for their rights to be considered. I think there is a good case for them never to be released from prison as decent, law-abiding people’s interests should be put first, not those of habitual criminals.

I can’t seem to comprehend how a person who was an Odinist, someone who believes in honour, self-reliance, discipline and industriousness would ever find themselves in prison in the first place. It seems to totally go against the basic tenets of what Odinism is all about. So my next question is:

It would be important to know WHEN the inmate found the Odinist way. Many have no guidance when they are incarcerated. You also have to realize that many reoffend because incarceration does not provide rehabilitation. Rehabilitation STARTS with the inmate themselves, however many do not have the wherewithall to know that and end up back in prison. Sometimes it takes more than once for an inmate to "get it."


2. Would you only contact a prisoner who has become an Odinist in prison? Would you contact someone who has been an Odinist already but has been incarcerated through their anti-social behaviour?

I think this is something you have to decide on an individual basis. There are many in prison for other reasons than anti-social behavior. There are many in prison who did not committ a crime but were convicted of one anyway!


I hope I haven’t offended anyone with my comments, as that was not my intention, but I really would like some opinions on what I’ve said from fellow Odinists because I must admit that the idea of prisoner outreach is one that, given the provisos above, seem to actually go against Odinist philosophy to a certain extent.

I'm sort of one sided here because I met and married a man who had been in prison for over 10 years. Trying to explain WHY on earth I would marry an inmate has not been easy and I tend to quote one of my Harley Davidson T-shirts.. "if I have to explain it, you probably wouldn't understand it anyway." :) :)

All I can say is open your eyes to the experience. TRY IT. Find an Odinist inmate who is open to frank, open discussions. Learn the answers to your questions from those who have walked that path. At best you will come to a full understanding. At worst, you will not agree with it and you'll step away from the whole experience - but at least you will have experienced something new!

mrsd

[The Mersey's Watcher]

I've read a bit of this thread and thought I'd rock the boat with my, unshared, opinion. What I don't understand is, why are we helping convicts ?, criminals ?, surely there are more worthy people who deserve the attention of the Odinist community. Secondly, like I said, they're convicts, they're in prison to be punished. Prison isn't suppose to be a temporary home it's suppose to be a punishment. Prisoners, in my opinion, have too many privileges.

And please don't say, "they're our kin, they made a mistake and they're human". I'm human and I've made 100's of mistakes, but I'm not in prison.

It would be better to see the OR reaching out to school, colleges, and hospitals rather than prisons.

And if there are people who are trying to get equal religious rights in prison, well then good luck, but if people want to help our kin, find someone more worthy.

This is just my opinion and I'm sure many of you disagree, don't feel offended.

[mrsdragon]

It would be better to see the OR reaching out to school, colleges, and hospitals rather than prisons.

Whats wrong with reaching out to ALL?


What I don't understand is, why are we helping convicts ?, criminals ?, surely there are more worthy people who deserve the attention of the Odinist community. Secondly, like I said, they're convicts, they're in prison to be punished. Prison isn't suppose to be a temporary home it's suppose to be a punishment. Prisoners, in my opinion, have too many privileges.

I consider my husband worthy of not only my love, but my support and understanding. All humans make mistakes... some are more serious than others. Everyone at least deserves a chance to improve their lifestyle.

I'm not offended by your opinions nor can I fault in anyone who chooses to not support those who were convicted of a crime. Nonjudgmental support is not everyones "thing." However, please respect that I have chosen this path to support not just my husband but others who are in prison. I hope you can find a path within your other suggestions of schools, hospitals, etc.

mrsd

[The Mersey's Watcher]

Firstly, your husband sounds like a great guy and I wish him all the best.


You have to be pretty close minded to think that people can't change. Christians have prison outreach! Why shouldn't we?

Secondly, I believe people can change in prison, if they want to. And when they come out Odinists should be ready to embrace their newly reformed kin. However, prison is a place of punishment, and if you ask me people get through it too easily.

I think prisons are, to be frank, one of the most undeserving sections of society for help. Energy could be better spend elsewhere.

Now I know my posts aren't going to make a difference and I don't want to offend people even more so I'll leave it right there.

Edit: Both your husbands :) .

[Zelda]

My husband is in federal prison and has been incarcerated for 23 years. We've been married for 21 years. Participation in the Asatru kindred in the prison has had more of an impact upon his growth and maturity than anything else. He is someone who accepts responsibility for his past and never whines about his situation. Makes do with what he has (or doesn't have). That said, the prisoners in the kindred always are eager for more knowlege and information about Odinism and, because the prison chaplains are never Odinists, any articles and books and information have to come from people on the outside willing to share. They aren't asking anyone to judge them or forgive them - they are asking folks to share their knowledge and insights with them so they can progress. And, in turn, they share with those they know. My husband has shared his vast knowledge, obtained with the help of various folks in the free world, with me and with our son and others. I am not aware there is some type of standard or entrance examination to study or practice Odinism. And once someone becomes true to his/her Odinist values and beliefs, then the job of the "corrections system" has been accomplished, eh? Zelda

[Odinskind]

Edited by request

[solar_nexus]

Opinion #1:

Not only does Varg deserve to be in prison, he actually deserves alot worst.....a bullet in his head.

In any event, one thing I hate about the black metal scene is that its members are loyal to the music FIRST and Heathenry second. I met this black metaler that was a Heathen and I asked him what he thought of Unleashed, he said "they are death metal faggots" yet he praises Euronomous of Mayhem because he is "black metal", yet Unleashed are totally Heathen and Euronomous is a Satanist. None of those kids even have their priorities straight. I would side with some raver that was a Heathen before I would side with someone that was into industrial or goth rock yet was a Christian or a Satanist, despite the fact that I enjoy industrial and goth rock more than rave music. Why? Because my Troth to the Gods and the Folk are more important to me than how I choose to dress or the kind of music that I listen to. That is why I dislike people (especially Heathens) that place more allegence to their subkulture than their Folkway. I have no time for these kind of people, they are totally worthless in my opinion and can go to Hel.

Opinion #2

I also don't have time for prisoners or ex-cons. I've given these type of people chances and most of the time they are Bad News. In fact, I can even tell you about a situation where I gave one a chance and I have tried to set an example for this person and help this person. I gave him books on health and nutrition, gave him a copy of the Havimal and We are our Deeds by Eric Wodening, also gave him alot of knowledge pertaining to the Runes as well taught him alot of grappling and striking techniques. What happened? Well, apparently he didn't want to put forth any work into himself and all I did was feed into his gnawing insecurities and he turned on me. He poisoned the minds of two of my "freinds" and I ended up getting attacked by them (while he sat back and watched) and then called the police and told them that I "went crazy" and started swining at everyone. I was set up. DO NOT associate with people that are felons! These people have severe mental problems and most of them cannot be helped, a good number of them are unfeeling sociopaths with heads and hearts filled with poison and malice. If you try to help them or better them in any way, it will only feed into their malice, especially if you have everything together or your life is going well, the better you do the more hate filled they become. I don't know why anyone would want to associate with a bunch of wyrms, wargs, and trolls.

[Hengest]

As you say, your opinion.

I am pretty sick of your opinions as they generally tend to come with unecessary abuse and insult. Your ill-informed generalisations about prisoners are insulting to many of my comrades and to the families of people here. So you have had some bad experiences, I am not surprised with the complete lack of respect you show people.

I am putting you on moderation until you can express your opinions without insults.

[mrsdragon]

Solor Nexus.. I hope that no one whom you love ever makes a mistake and ends up incarcerated. Obviously you have never known unconditional love and understanding. You should try it sometime, it feels pretty damn good!

[answald]

I,m just curious, does this kind of heathen prison outreach happen
in the uk, i always get the impression it,s more of a north American
thing?
I think the idea of helping, or trying to help our folk in prison is
very good, if it helps them to understand and come to see the great heritage
that flows in their blood, if prisoners have wise heathen teachers who
show the great depth and richness of our ways, and thus help
our folk to see what i saw not so long ago, and that is, how old
our way is,and yet how fresh and vibrant it is.,
Well that can only be good to say the least..

[Hengest]

From the OR point of view, we are set up to support Odinist prisoners and are registered as contacts with the UK Pagan Federation, but to be honest there really is not the demand.

We have probably heard from no more than 5 Odinist prisoners in the last 10 years. In the UK there is not the kind of groupings as there are in US prisons (ie, based on racial or religious affiliations).

[Schwarzesonne]

I have very mixed feelings on this whole issue.

There is one side of me that recognizes that MOST of our nation’s laws are very much the same as the ethics supported by Odinism. For that matter, the ninth charge is To abide by the enactments of lawful authority, and to bear with courage the decrees of the Norns. Those people who cannot or will not abide by these ethics are not those folks who I’m in any hurry to associate with. They are not the people with whom I’d recommend that my kindred shares their luck or that I’d necessary wish to bring around my wife and children (the degree, of course, may depend on the crime and its circumstances.

My wife will not even tolerate me communicating directly to prisoners—and she offers very good reasons for this. I’ll never forget how angry she was with me when I had donated a copy of the Edda to a prison who’s chaplain had contacted me through my website wondering where he could find one!

On the other hand there are certain individuals who come from prison backgrounds that have contributed—and are currently contributing—very powerful and important things to our faith; and by doing so for our community. What kind of individual would I be to fail to recognize and respect this? Especially realizing how much more effort it takes these individuals (because of their situation) than it does for those of us on the outside.

The way I’ve reconciled this in my mind is to see prisoners and ex-convicts as being in a position of having to prove themselves to their community. And I don’t mean in the same fashion that “random new guy” does--but perhaps expecting a higher degree of scrutiny. Just to balance all this: some folks actually do much better when they know full well that they’re under the proverbial microscope. This not only provides the community as a whole the opportunity to decide whether they/we are comfortable with the individual in question; and it also provides the prisoner/ex-convict a new opportunity to prove his or her worth, maybe even to his/her benefit in the long run.

[aud_friggsdottir]

On the other hand there are certain individuals who come from prison backgrounds that have contributed—and are currently contributing—very powerful and important things to our faith; and by doing so for our community. What kind of individual would I be to fail to recognize and respect this? Especially realizing how much more effort it takes these individuals (because of their situation) than it does for those of us on the outside.

The way I’ve reconciled this in my mind is to see prisoners and ex-convicts as being in a position of having to prove themselves to their community. And I don’t mean in the same fashion that “random new guy” does--but perhaps expecting a higher degree of scrutiny. Just to balance all this: some folks actually do much better when they know full well that they’re under the proverbial microscope. This not only provides the community as a whole the opportunity to decide whether they/we are comfortable with the individual in question; and it also provides the prisoner/ex-convict a new opportunity to prove his or her worth, maybe even to his/her benefit in the long run.

This I agree with...I tell them lets see in a year...but we have Hearth members that are "ex cons". I also personally know people that have been put in prison for bogus crimes and should not be treated as a common criminal, unfortunately sometimes they come out criminals even they didn't go in as one. Our general rule is they have a year. IF they can maintain normalcy for a year, then we will consider them Ok....now I know folks that have been out of prison for decades and still are useless. But then I know people that have never been in prison who are the biggest POSs ever and still try and call themselves Odinists.

As to the NNC...I think the operative and ambiguous term in that sentence is lawful. Just take a look at the penal codes or US law...and think about that statement...some are obvious, some are outrageous and some are downright unlawful....

Anyway, I happen to know many prisonners and I think a wait and see attitude is best taken with them. Also, Odinism is a strong catalyst for change, never doubt its ability to take a mixed up individual and set him/her straight.

But then I do outreach and volunteer inside those walls.
FFF
Kathy

[mrsdragon]

Life is all about choices.... if one chooses to not support or believe in Odinist prisoners then don't... but please respect those of us who do.

[pinlighter]

Life is all about choices.... if one chooses to not support or believe in Odinist prisoners then don't... but please respect those of us who do.


That's very well said, mrsdragon

[Teufelhunden]

Exacatly,
I think that a man can change, do you really thing that our ancestors and Gods did not commit what would be called a violent crime by todays standards? Do you know the circumstances behind a man doing what he did? it may have been justified. That is neither here nor there as I do not know these men personally,but would give them the respect they deserve until proved wrong, they are still Folk.
Teufelhunden

[Zelda]

Why should we care about prisoners who want to study Odinism and embrace its lessons and values? Because a vast majority of them will be released from prison one day and may be your neighbor or co-worker. Because many of them have families they care about and with whom they share those lessons and beliefs. Just as there are deceptive and dishonorable people in the free world and, yes, even within some kindreds for a short while, the same is true for prisoners. And yet there are many who are sincere and motivated to change. So they are worth our time and energy because it is so difficult for them to find Odinist materials and information on their own with the restrictions of incarceration. Proceed with caution with those you don't know well. Corresponding and providing Odinist literature does not involve a great risk - if you keep to that for a long while, you will get a sense of the person. Stay away from becoming involved in monetary matters or forwarding correspondence to others and you'll be fine. And one more thing - you may start out thinking that the inmate will be learning from you; you will find it is a two-way path. As said above, if this path calls to you, then follow it. If not, then leave it to others. Zelda

[Laurel]

So someone makes a mistake and then wants to turn their life around after finding Odinism and you would not give them that chance?

The vast majority of Odinist prisoners find Odinism IN prison and they see that there is a better and more honourable way of living. I know many excellent people involved in outreach and they are overwhelmed by the passion for our faith that some of these prisoners show.

They overcome all sorts of odds just to be able to hold a blot or to even have their faith recognised as a valid one.

And who ever mentioned rapists? No Odinist would support a rapist. And what about Murder? Are all murders unforgiveable? Suppose someone did something to your kids and you killed them?

Leave your real name and we'll make sure that if you ever end up in jail that we don't write.

You just go on and make me proud! Hail to All That...

Laurel

[KateKell]

I am the supporter of one Odinist follower behind bars who has
enlightened me, and is a wonderful person who is fighting for
his rights to study his faith. I have ordered a custom made religious
artifact made from deer bone that he will display around his neck.

[Laurel]

Hail to all~

I have re-read this thread, and I would just like to make a couple of points for the skeptics on this thread.

1) Prison outreach is not just for prisoners. When you insure rights to people with no rights (prisoners), you insure that the high school kid who wears a hammer to school will not get suspended for it. If the state is granting prisoners the right to wear hammers, they don't have a leg to stand on when they try to deny the high school kid. Prison outreach is about religious freedom at the most basic level.

2) The choice to ignore people inside is valid. Prison work is difficult. Lots of uphill battles and endless roadblocks can wear you down. Very little of my problems have been with prisoners themselves. In over 10 years, I have met 3 people I thought were truly dangerous. The problems are with officials, hostile chaplains, and an overall prejudice against Odinism/Asatru. In any case, those of you who choose not to fight these battles can do that. You don't bother me. But people who are hostile to those of us who choose to do it may be missing a very important point. Odinism is the fastest growing religion behind bars. Prisoners are going to be Odinists whether we like it or not. They are being molded in a war zone, and have some hard edged attitudes. As a community, do you think it's wise to leave them to the misinformation abounding in the prisons (gang politics under the guise of Odinism)? One day they will all be free. And they probably outnumber free worlders. Isn't it more savvy to at least support those of us willing to do this work, so that when these people get out into the world there will be more of a chance they will be contributing members of our tribe? Don't you think it's more wise to support those of us who share information and conduct Blots so that the future of Odinism is stronger and more secure? We are doing an important service for the community. I think it's worthy of a tip of the hat, even if you wouldn't be caught dead doing it. I have been dealt out a lot of disrespect in my own community because of the prison work. The prisoners would not dream of disrespecting me like that.

3)The prison industry is a big business. 1 out of every 8 americans has family in prison. I think it's important to balance out fear/loathing of crime with a sensible analysis of the system (big business), with an intelligent seperation of natural law and US laws, and with the realization of the sheer numbers of people in our own community affected by prison. Those of us with loved ones inside have a different perspective, and we don't need people disrespecting our families. Those on the inside are much like anyone else, they were mostly just more wild in their youth. OK a lot more wild. But that was 12 years ago. We all grow up and learn.

Laurel

[Nikolai]

I just sent an amail to an inmate, forgot his name, but he seems like a really nice bloke from his profile... hope to get a reply soon.

Skaal and Hail,
Nikolai

[Sigurd]

A superb post, Laurel.

I agree, many of the people who are actual Odinists as prisoners are very honorable people from what I have heard. Since most find Odinism whilst behind bars, they are called to a more honorable way than one they might have followed in their youth. Whilst they should be punished for things they have done wrong, there is nothing to suggest that they cannot improve whilst inside!

Another way might of course be an Odinist getting locked up, but then it would be a mistake they made, or it was standing up for their folk that was considered illegal: Who here would consider it wrong if you happened to use excessive force (to the extent of fatal injury)whilst trying to fend one off that seeks to violate your wife? (Gets you 9 years in typical!) Or would it be wrong if you happened to severely hurt someone, if it was the only way to save a friend's life? (Depending on how aggravated the "assault", can get you like up to 5 years)

And there's of course the innocents, the way they are locked up under the US's draconic law system. Or how else would you explain that there are numerous hearths (or with other orgs, kindreds) behind bars in the US - but that prisoner outreach is not needed on such a scale here in Europe?

Either way, going along with the way the OR does it is pretty secure. As far as I am aware, the OR is particularly careful when choosing the prisoners it is willing to support, much more so than with regular members joining. For example, they will not accept anyone convicted of sexual offences or offences that include young children.

[mrsdragon]

For example, they will not accept anyone convicted of sexual offences or offences that include young children.
__________________

But thats not right either... with the system prosecuting people for sex offenses with virtually no evidence other that she said (or Mom said) it happened some folks with convictions for sex crimes should not be thrown to the wayside! Nor should the 17-18 year old high school kid who had sex with his 15 year old girlfriend and his parents never made him aware of the laws until it was too late!

[æinvargR]

Nor should the 17-18 year old high school kid who had sex with his 15 year old girlfriend and his parents never made him aware of the laws until it was too late!I don't see anything wrong with that even if he was aware of the law, I'd ignore that law if I was in that situation, it's just silly. "We've gotta wait three days til your birthday."

[Schwarzesonne]

I don't see anything wrong with that even if he was aware of the law, I'd ignore that law if I was in that situation, it's just silly. "We've gotta wait three days til your birthday."

I can only respond to this by referring to the 9th Charge: “To abide by the enactments of lawful authority, and to bear with courage the decrees of the Norns.” Perhaps waiting the 3 days just might make a difference not only in what occurs (or doesn’t occur), but how it occurs. I realize that, using your example, waiting 3 days until a birthday may seem silly; but the way we lay layers in Urdabrunno is often less obvious than we would like. And besides, the laws of the land must be made with some sort of arbitrary limit, and if the age is 18 or whatever it is in your area, well that’s the arbitrary point that was agreed upon by the officials that your citizenry elected.

...And no, I'm not just saying that because my daughter is almost that age! :eek:

[Katia]

I know that our justice system is far from perfect, and unfortunately some women do lie about what men have done... But personally I would not take the risk of letting a convicted sex offender near my family. I am very careful of who I allow around my family in general but if someone was put in a situation where they were accused of this kind of disgusting act, I just don't want anything to do with them. The safety of my family comes before anything else and it just isn't worth the risk. Let's not forget that
every sex offender accused and/or convicted denies that they are guilty! I guess it's not impossible that one or two might be telling the truth but the odds are certainly against them and it's not a risk I'm willing to take.

[aud_friggsdottir]

I can only respond to this by referring to the 9th Charge: “To abide by the enactments of lawful authority, and to bear with courage the decrees of the Norns.” Perhaps waiting the 3 days just might make a difference not only in what occurs (or doesn’t occur), but how it occurs. I realize that, using your example, waiting 3 days until a birthday may seem silly; but the way we lay layers in Urdabrunno is often less obvious than we would like. And besides, the laws of the land must be made with some sort of arbitrary limit, and if the age is 18 or whatever it is in your area, well that’s the arbitrary point that was agreed upon by the officials that your citizenry elected.

...And no, I'm not just saying that because my daughter is almost that age! :eek:

Well also, what about self discipline....why can't you wait? What is your problem...no self control? This coming from a parent of a 15 yo girl :).

I don't rank that up there with child molestation, but unless you personally know the details of the crime or alleged crime...sex offenders are persona non grata (probably spelled that incorrectly) in every instance.

[Nikolai]

Im 15, and still a virgin... i plan on waiting, saving it for some one special... someone who enjoys what i enjoy... Faith, Folk and Family!

[Sigurd]

I can only respond to this by referring to the 9th Charge: “To abide by the enactments of lawful authority, and to bear with courage the decrees of the Norns.”

That is true, and we should hold lawfulness as very important. Although some rather idiotic laws make it almost impossible to not get on the wrong side of the Law.

It is hard to adjust to the Law, when, like me, you return from a country where you are able to buy and drink alcohol from age 16 onwards; and suddenly you stand in Morrison's with those bottles of Mead, she asks you for ID and upon producing it she states that you're too young to buy it and you look puzzled. (UK has an legal '18' limit) I could have gotten a police record and a fine in court for that! :eek:

With all those laws in place it is a bit useless. Basically me drinking was legal in one place - but not legal in another. What is to be the point of that?

What about the legal smoking age that they want to raise from 16 to 18? I have now quit smoking some time ago, so I don't need it anymore... but that law, will leave thousands of people who can legally smoke back to be lawbreakers from one day to another.


but unless you personally know the details of the crime or alleged crime...sex offenders are persona non grata

That is true, sex offenders are the lowest of the low. There are only a few exceptions

-As far as I am aware, under German Law people are able to have sexual intercourse from the age of 14 onwards, if both people are under 18. If one of them is over 18, the age of consent is 16. A possible problem between a 17-yr old with a 15-yr old girlfriend will arise once one of them turns 18, but the other is not quite 16 yet.
This same one extends to Scottish law, where the age of consent is 14 for boys and 16 for girls. Thus, by the law (fair enough, people should IMO not have sex at that age, but let's keep it to a purely legal thing), a 14 year old boy having sex with his 15 year old girlfriend (i.e. she is older but he is committing child abuse? :confused: ) is classed as a paedophile.

- The other exception would be the "drunken consent" cases. We actually had one here in Aberdeen involving a Law student (!) a few years back.
The guy had been out on a night drinking, and in usual fashion "pulled" a girl. Both agreed to sexual intercourse to go ahead when they were home; but on the next day she realised that she could only have given consent to such a person in a drunken state. (she said as much herself) that she had given her consent. The man was locked up for rape on the basis that drunken consent is no consent.

These given examples are the only error margins that I would allow, for there is nothing morally wrong. One went ahead and did what was perfectly legal the day before, the other could not possible have known that her consent was not genuine!

Apart from that, sexual offenders should be given not only a lifetime in prison, but also medical castration!

(PS: I might be lenient though towards those students who for a lost bet hiked their kilts up in a road at 3 AM without anyone actually present - except a policeman who saw them. Such is a First Class Sexual Offence and now they are on the Sex Offenders Register! :rolleyes: )

[æinvargR]

The man was locked up for rape on the basis that drunken consent is no consent.They should've locked up the girl too then, I'm assuming the man was drunk aswell? Heh.


I can only respond to this by referring to the 9th Charge: “To abide by the enactments of lawful authority, and to bear with courage the decrees of the Norns.”
That is true, and we should hold lawfulness as very important. Although some rather idiotic laws make it almost impossible to not get on the wrong side of the Law.There are some laws that in some cases are totally useless, senseless, victimless. If ***** (mushrooms) were part of the old ways, I don't care what the modern, Christian law says when considering it, it's my business only. If I was 17 and had a 14 year old girlfriend and we wanted to have sex, I wouldn't care that the law in my country says it's rape because she's below 15 and I'm above. If I had a 17 year old son and I wanted to drink some beer with him, I wouldn't care that the law says he's got to be 18.


...And no, I'm not just saying that because my daughter is almost that age! :eek: :p

[Somerled]

Apart from that, sexual offenders should be given not only a lifetime in prison, but also medical castration!

In my opinion rapists should be killed once guilt has been firmly established.

On a different note...lawful authority? I haven't come across it yet.

[Laurel]

I can only respond to this by referring to the 9th Charge: “To abide by the enactments of lawful authority, and to bear with courage the decrees of the Norns.”

Well, there's lawful authority, corrupt authority, power mongers, state control of personal choices, and prison-as-big-business. There's biblical authority (some of which is barbaric and unnecessary), which informs some of our lawmakers. Then there are Principles that Odinist people like to live by. Notice that Lawful Authority is only one part of the above.
What's happening now is that a situation is dawning where people can be put away for their beliefs.
Homeland Security has Odinism on its hit list in the federal prison system. The Bureau of Prisons was given a list of religions within the federal system and were told to Make their Lives Difficult. Odinists were on the list.
There is a point where we have to look at the system realistically and seperate lawful authority from unlawful authority. We no longer live in a tribal Anglo Saxon society. We must question authority.

Regarding sex offenders and castration: It doesn't work. Rape is not about sex drive. It's about hate fear and power. A castrated rapist may even be more cruel because the hate and power problems can't be cut away. I think it's best to put proven serial rapists and child molesters away forever. There has never been a cure.

Laurel

[Sigurd]

They should've locked up the girl too then, I'm assuming the man was drunk aswell? Heh.

In Scotland, rape is a gender-specific crime. It is the law that only men can rape women. If women do it, it would be "sexually aggravated assault". If both stand against each other, it's the man who's at fault, since he did the bigger crime. Basically it's taken the view that only the man can force cohabitation upon the woman, not vice-versa.


[[[The fact that only men can rape women would also theoretically mean that people who've undergone a sexchange cannot be rapists - since it is the gender at birth that counts, and since the actus reus (that is, the deed that was a crime) is defined as "obtaining carnal knowledge of a woman by vaginal penetration against her will." - which has that obvious result...]]]

[Nikolai]

Back to the topic of writing to prisoners, i did, and just recieved a letter from him... i wrote one back and going to the post office tomorrow to send it! Go me!

[Hengest]

Good for you Nikolai. Nice one.

[einherjer]

In my opinion rapists should be killed once guilt has been firmly established.

On a different note...lawful authority? I haven't come across it yet.
Altho some im guessing would find your point of view on the extreme level i hole heartedly agree with it.-ken

[Ragnar Odhinnsson]

I am an ex-prisoner. I served 9 years in federal prison for arson. My girlfriend was gang rapped by three black men and I went to their house in a rage. They were not there so I took some of that rage out by burning their place to the ground. I'm not trying to justify anything that I did. I'm just telling you what happened. While I was in prison I was introduced to Odinism. I did get the opportunity to learn about a higher goal, something that was more important than all the mundane things of the world. It was the Odinic Rite that made it possible for me to learn these things.
There are so many good people locked up. They are intelligent individuals who have very good intentions on things. Many have changed their lives and many shouldn't even be in prison. There are several people out there that would love to hear from some outside Odinists. They would welcome it because it is good to know that Odinism is not a "prison' thing. If any are interested in writing to some Odinist prisoners I have several addresses, numbering into about 120 or so.

[Hengest]

Ragnar! Welcome brother. It is about time you showed up here.

[Utz87]

I wouldent mind writing to a prisoner or two. I know it royaly sucks in there, and I never got any mail. :)

[Vanatru]

I am an ex-prisoner. I served 9 years in federal prison for arson. My girlfriend was gang rapped by three black men and I went to their house in a rage. They were not there so I took some of that rage out by burning their place to the ground. I'm not trying to justify anything that I did. I'm just telling you what happened. While I was in prison I was introduced to Odinism. I did get the opportunity to learn about a higher goal, something that was more important than all the mundane things of the world. It was the Odinic Rite that made it possible for me to learn these things.
There are so many good people locked up. They are intelligent individuals who have very good intentions on things. Many have changed their lives and many shouldn't even be in prison. There are several people out there that would love to hear from some outside Odinists. They would welcome it because it is good to know that Odinism is not a "prison' thing. If any are interested in writing to some Odinist prisoners I have several addresses, numbering into about 120 or so.


Holy crap, that sucks; though, I can't blame ya. I can only hope, the 3 were in the house when it burned down....but, that's me....blue, white or black I'd rather see rapists suffer.

I'd love to write to them, but our turn around time for snail mail sucks.

[Thrungva]

Ragnar- i currently write to a prisoner and would be willing to write to others, if you want to email me: thrungva@yahoo.com

FFF
renae
Ancestral Heritage Hearth

[Sigurd]

Hails, Ragnar, good to see you here! Was about time they did give you your freedom! :swinghamm

Hmmm...if the courts adopted a position of morals rather than their oh-so-cherished legal positivism ("blabla, law ought to be black letter, with the main duty to obey the law, moral things shouldnt be law, blabla"), then you would have not had to spend 9 years in prison! (Which is actually longer than most rapists get - so if they were convicted at all, I assume they got less than that? :mad: ) All you did is perform justice on your own accord, can't blame you for what you did.

The elders would have had you compensation paid for their house, or said that the crimes annulled each other. The idiotic system of this day and age punishes you for doing the morally understandable thing whilst it fails to adequately punish those crimes for which there can never be a moral justification (i.e. rape, child abuse and the likes.)

Really, one would think that lawyers and judges only exist these days to win the case, make career and money, and not to achieve justice!...I'm studying law and I've seen it, even amongst some co-students ("My father dissuaded me from doing law, but it's the best money you can make"). Probably this is actually why I am studying law - to help to change that trend, and to achieve the justice that is needed: My motives will be driven by Tyr, not money.

Either way, I would be interested as well to get in contact with incarcerated Odinists. If you wish to re: me on that, send me a PM or e-Mail me at sigurd_eirikson@yahoo.co.uk ... before that though, if one is in contact with a prisoner, how does one approach writing to one in the first place; since I've never written to one before. ( 1. I'm in the UK here, 2. prison authorities might have a consensus on what is accepted lengthwise, weightwise, or typewise?) ;)

[Laurel]

if one is in contact with a prisoner, how does one approach writing to one in the first place; since I've never written to one before. ( 1. I'm in the UK here, 2. prison authorities might have a consensus on what is accepted lengthwise, weightwise, or typewise?) ;)

I'm sure Ragnar will get in touch with you, but I can answer this. You can write as long as you want, as much as you can afford to send overseas. The important thing is to be consistant. In other words, if you are going to write to someone commit to it and don't flake off. Mail means a lot. Someone from England started writing to one of the Gungnir Hearth members, for instance, and suddenly stopped. Mike, who is a regular contributor to ORB and a solid brother, is the person responsible for getting Gungnir Hearth together and who originally asked me to come down and be their sponsor. He was excited to write to someone from England. Then the guy flaked off. Mike is still asking about him, and wondered if it was something he said. I'd say that's the important thing to remember.

For the record, there are OR members inside who would like letters from other OR people. Just letting all of you OR members know this.

Laurel

[Lonnie]

I know what Laurel means... I have been somewhat guilty of that in the past... I tell the guys I correspond with, if you don't hear back from me in a moderate amount of time - feel free to write and give me a kick in the pants to jog my memory :p There have been times when work-home-life in general has stalled me from answering a letter. And it really isn't cool to do that to the guys inside...

[Sigurd]

In other words, if you are going to write to someone commit to it and don't flake off.

Thanks for reminding about that. As a student, there are certain times when there is absolutely no time, but they will be predictable, so one could mention "it may be some time until I can write you back, I have three weeks of exams coming up," and they would know that correspondence would go on at a later date. The same applies for periods of being at home in Austria - the address can be be announced in the last letter before homeward journey. ;)

[wesley]

Heil,

A little advise on corresponding with incarerated people. First use a P.O. Box, not your home address. For one reason it's safer. Plus you shouldn't get any flack from your mail carrier/post master.

Another thing is to come right out on the first post, if the inmate hasn't done so already, and ask them to send a copy of their crime/time sheet. Most prisons that I work with issues these out to every prisoner. It will display the current possible time of release and what charges they are in for. One thing to look out for are gaps within the typed text of these sheets stuff like this ,you see. There does tend to be a problem of the guards actually "doctoring" these time sheets, which can cause the above "gaps". Since these sheets are generated from a main database, the guards cannot change it there. But they have been known to white-out, re-type and then photocopy this sheet. This is either because they are sympathic :kaioken: (SICK!) :kaioken: or a way to keep the inmate safe that way they don't have to do the work when one of these shame-criminals is discovered and is lumped up. Basically making their job easier by stacking the deck.

I'm not wanting to scare anyone off of doing any corrospondences or Odinic outreach. Because there are some truly inspirational individuals that I correspond with. I just don't want people going into this blind. Some words to remember are;


Havamal stanza 1:
Within the gates ere a man shall go,
(Full warily let him watch,)
Full long let him look about him;
For little he knows where a foe may lurk,
And sit in the seats within.

So good luck to those who go into this endeavour. As other before have stated before, don't flake on writing to the solid individuals. Our positivity and support will inspire them to help themselves. To live better lives, knowing that they are not alone within the walls.

FFF
Wes

[Lonnie]

Here is a great site that list locators links for inmates. A lot of times these locators will also give you the background on the inmate... Its a great tool...

[Katia]

I would suggest more along the lines of what Lonnie is saying, check local Department of Corrections websites for the inmate to make sure he is not a sexual predator. Personally I would only not correspond with a sex offender, so if I look up sex offenders and they are not listed, I'm good.

[Lonnie]

Here is a great site that list locators links for inmates. A lot of times these locators will also give you the background on the inmate... Its a great tool...


Guess it would have helped to put the link on that post.. :rolleyes:

http://www.ancestorhunt.com/prison_search.htm

[Sifrid]

Hailsa,

I was recently released from Hutchinson Correctional Facility and know of several fellow Heathens that would love to know the outside Folk community supports them and would like to be more involved in things. I am a Kindred member of Three Raven which is a prison based Kindred for now. Those that have been released before me have slacked on their duties. All I can speak for is what actions I take into futhering what has been supressed for 2,000+ years. Here are a few Heathens that I recommend. I recommend all of the ones that are at Hutchinson now tho I do not have all of their #'s. That can be obtained within a week if people are interested in writing them.

Dustin Sanders #89838
Frank Crutchfild #67211
Matthew Gillman #75566
Michael Yardley #64843
Noah Rosenberg #82417

All can be contacted at: Hutchinson Correctional Facility
P.O. Box 1568
Hutchinson, Ks 6750

[FullofHate1488]

I don't know any prisonned Heathens, though I'd like to get to know some. Hey same here dont know any but i would like to. I allways wanted to write to Matt hale but dont know if i can and I herd his family could only write to him close family that is.

[sif_glow]

If I could support a prisoner money wise I would...but my family is poor..so

[Raven Morrigan]

I myself support over 40 prisoners through correspondance. I also have a support group called SPIEL, a support group for POW's and their loved ones.

[Thor1488]

There is a great need for volunteers. I volunteer at Corcoran SATF and am awaiting gate clearance for North Valley and Tehachapi SHU. Contact me if you live in the Central Valley of Kern County and I will give you the details. I am wanting to start a kindred of both free men and incarcerated. Give me a call:
Collin
661-246-6990

[Thor1488]

I support prisoners. For the past six months I have been volunteering at Corcoran State Prison and SATF and am awaiting gate clearance at two other facilities. It is imparative to support our kinsmen that are behind the wire. My experience has been positive--I was a member of the HNO and the Sons of Odin but since, unfortunately we did not see eye to eye on some praxis issues and it spawned me to simply drop my membership. Regardless there are Tru Folk incarcerated that need our support. The only thing that I would suggest to anyone volunteering is know what your limitations are and realize that just because you are there things are not going to change overnight. I have sent memo after memo trying to get a list of ritual items into the prison for the inmates with little to no success but I think that might be due to issues of the facility. I am going to be volunteering at two other prisons and so it will be interesting to see what is allowed in the other prisons? For anyone volunteering--don't be nervous about going into the state prison system, I have had nothing but positive experiences with the kinsmen behind the wire!
Good luck and my the Gods and Goddesses watch over your endeavors!
Regardless of the limitations I stay my course and will continue to do all that legally I am able to do to ensure that inmates are allowed to practice our Noble Faith--it may be years to see the fruition of todays actions but I suspect that eventually it will come to pass. We all need to work together for the same cause...
Hail Odin!
Hail our Folk!

[midgard man]

We are avid Prisoner supporters. We currently have 160 POW/PP's that we are in correspondence with. Many of these guys and girls are in the SHU, but luckily they can still receive correspondence. One of our POW's is the irreverable Mr. Kemp. He is one of our high profile POW's, but we should never forget any of our folk behind the wire. All we need to do is let them know they are remembered and appreciated for what they gave up for our folk. .42 cents and a one sentence line that says Thank You and you are not Forgotten. It would mean the world to them.

Corcoran is where the movie "Felon" was based on. Excellent movie and actually represents the daily life of the inmates there. Do yourself a favor and watch this movie, then maybe a Thank You to our POW/PP's would bother you so much.

[lucky88]

My love spent many years behind bars and I can not speak for him but I do know The MEN behind bars are in need of as many and as much Information as possible about the odinist way. We should support are prisoners and give them hope. I am an odinist because I was taught by a man who learned in prison. WE ARE DEVOTED and just because hes out he hasn't forgotten.

HAIL ODIN!!!
HAIL FRIGGA!!!
HAIL THOR!!!

[SirThorgil]

I'd be more concerned about the victim personally. I don't think taxpayer money should go to facilitate the religions of prisoners, noone gives me free books or free Mjollnirs. If religious groups want to do it out of their own pocket then that's up to them. It seems hypocritical for violent offenders to complain about their rights when they showed no concern for the rights of their victims.



It was about "prisoners", rapists would fall into this category and I said I wouldn't support a rapist. So we agree on that. If you support other criminals then why not support rapists too? Seems arbitrary. What if a convicted rapist is really passionate about Odinism? Rape's bad but murder is okay?



When I say murder I mean the murder of an innocent person. Someone imprisoned for defence would fall into category a) (defence is supposed to be legal) and I'd be okay with them. As for retribution, it's not as obviously okay as actual defence but I'd still be okay with somebody who did that. By my own morality killing someone who didnt deserve it is much worse than killing someone who did. It does depend exactly what they did to my kids, and if me killing them myself was necessary to get justice.



I don't think I'm ever going to be in jail but if I was jailed and deserved it, then I wouldn't expect or deserve any support.

My good fellow you have no idea what you speak of. As a former prisoner (and i will not disclose the crime which i was accused of as i would rather delete this account), I can tell you no Odinist/Heathen gets anything from the taxpayers dollar except the housing, food, and very limited hygeine items. If you wanted a book on Odinism and no one you knew had one you had to write to someone outside of the prison (ie family or friends) and ask them to get you some. They had to be purchased by someone and sent from the place it was bought (ie barnes and noble would have to ship the package to you not your family). The only times we complained about our rights was when we were not allowed the time to worship our Gods and Goddesses. Every other religion was afforeded the time in the chapel to worship and so why couldn't we. If someone (like myself for example) were to find Odinism in prison and change his/her life around to be more noble (ie trys very hard to live by the NNV and the Wotanic Code.), why shouldn't they be supported. In saying that you wouldnt care for them, let them into your home after corresponding for months or years until they got a job and got on their feet, let alone write them. You are being inhospitable and you are not living by the NNV. I don't care what a man or woman has done in their past. If you are my brethern (a follower of Asatru (and all its other names)) I accept you and will help you to better your life. I know what its like to be removed from everything you know and everyone you care about. And while it hasnt been extremely long ago. I have made a change for the better. I no longer have the same drives and desires that I did before finding Odinism. And so far I have not broken any other laws and have no intention on doing so. I now have a wife and child on the way. No body helped me. I had one bro in prison that was Odinist and he lent me some pamphlets and I wrote to some organizations and learned. I went to the well of Urd I paid my price for the knowledge that I have gained and it has kept me out of trouble thus far. And Gods willing I will never have to go through that again.

To those of you who are involved in prisoner outreach ministeries. Thank you from the bottom of my heart and please continue to do what you are doing for our Folk. It will affect at least one person profoundly. I only wish I could have had the opportunity to have that chance.



In Frith,

Sir Thorgil Odinsson.
See you all at Ragnarok

[Robert/Odin321]

hailsa
support for our volk on the other side of the wire is important,At Yule time many start to remember family and friends that are locked down,if you know someone send a card a money order,many have nothing to be in good spirits over except there pride and faith.if you want a heathen to greet i know many and just cant afford to send everyone cards and letters,odin321@myspace.com
Bless

[vegtamskvida]

I was recently released from prison and will be hopefully get more support for the kindred I was involved in there. Vindheim is only about a year old, They do not have a sponsor yet, and the material the have available is very slim. I am doing every thing I can, but being just released I can not sponsor them. Any help in this area would be appreciated. Also any one who is looking to maybe support via mail with any of my kinsmen they would probably reciprocate gladly.

Hail the Gods and Goddesses! Hail Vindheim

[Mz Jin]

I told him I was agnostic and he told me about Odin, now my son and I are solitary Odinists. I started a cause on Facebook "Help Prison Inmates With Religious Items" and I am currently looking for a Beneficiary with a Tax Status: 501(c)(3) who is located in Florida who can allocate whatever funds are donated (preferably to Florida) inmates for hammers, Poetic Edda's and runes.

When I met him, I was scared of the prison, razor wire, other inmates, people who visit inmates... it took him a while to convince me it was safe. I also had some preconceived ideas about prison and how those mean low down dirty dogs deserved whatever sentence they got and they deserved whatever happened to them blah blah well ok, most of them do deserve the sentence they were given and they know it however... they are still human, they are still Americans, they are still our brothers and sisters, husbands and wives. Prison is a whole other world that most of us know nothing about. He once told me "if people only knew", yeah they still wouldn't care unless they became embroiled in it.

Wassail
Jin

[Aussieskin]

I write to a couple of brothers behind the wire - when you are in lock down 23 hrs a day, letters from the outside can be a real life saver.

[norse88]

My brothers that are locked up still are heathen & 2 of them get out soon 1 in 5 weeks, mail is the highlight
of the day besides "store day"

[norse88]

My brothers would be glad to get mail from other heathens , so if you are serious about it then email me at norse88@hotmail.com
I already do what I can for them.

[norse88]

The only prisoner I would ever think of supporting would be one who a) was actually innocent or b) is imprisoned for a crime without a victim eg posession of *****. If you're so damn religious then you should have thought about that before you raped, murdered stole etc. It really bothers me to hear these rapists and murderers talking about how religious they are and demanding to have all sorts of paraphenailia at the taxpayers expense to carry out their religion. Does your religion condone what you did?

hey scramaseax, I am not nor are any of my brothers rapests, I went to prison for assault twice & I hate sex offenders to
not every one in prison is in on a sex case & you stated that the only ones you would support is if they where inocent,
well then are you inocent? like you have never broke the law in your life, so befour you go running your mouth off
look at your self first, yes you do have the right to your own openion, but think about what you say befour you say it

[midgard man]

Norse88 we have started a project over on our site that you may not be familiar with. It is new and until we receive the okays from the POW's, we can't add them legally to a Penpal site without the okay. But we started an outreach program called "Break The Chains" where we find out sizes of clothes and ages and genders of POW's children and from time to time send them a gift from mom or dad. If you would like to add your Brother to our POW list, just send me a name and address and we'll get him on their. I have a brother in CT. who has 145 letters getting ready to go out in the mail to POW's.

[norse88]

I have names #s and addresses of some heathen brothers locked up & ive already talked to some of them & they would be glad to get mail from other heathens out here I already write them but I can only do so much & because of the way this state is w/ our heathen brothers locked up they might get the mail & it may get rejected. I faught 2 1/2 yrs for the chaplin to order some books
because we could not have books/lit. mailed to us only through the chapel. so if you would like to write some in missouri then show me where to post the names

[norse88]

thanks midgard man, i will check that out

[driftersgirl]

I am new to all this. I am with an Odinist who is locked up. He is now running the group at the facility he is at. I have been reading up a lot on Odinism and have even done a power point and 2 page paper for my World Religion class at college. My boyfriend has told me that some of the Odinist on the outside do not support those that are behind bars. For me this is really sad. He is very devoted to the Odinist religion and I would love to be able to have a kindred on the outside to be around. I am sure that I can get a list of the Odinist at most prisons. I will be seeing him on Thanksgiving and ask him to get this list for me if he can. He did not have a visitor for over 5 years and I know that there are other Folk that are in the same situation. I wish I could visit with all of them but there is a rule that you have to be related to the inmate if you are already on someone elses visiting list. Thank you for allowing me the chance to say my piece on this matter.